Learners are to be allowed to use the Motorway

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Falcorob
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#16 Post by Falcorob » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:36 pm

Just enforce the fucking law as it stands now. Retesting people won't make a blind bit of difference because no-one drives like they did on their test anyway.

Book people driving in the middle lane, for using mobiles, for jumping red lights, for not indicating on roundabouts, for putting their make up on, reading newspapers, changing lane at the very last second at junctions causing everyone else to brake, and the multitude of other daily offences I witness from the cab of my truck.

The biggest problem with driving standards is the almost total lack of regard for the law of the majority of drivers because the likelihood of actually being caught if you aren't speeding is miniscule. Bring back traffic police and fucking book people. :smt013
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#17 Post by Willopotomas » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:49 pm

Falcorob wrote:The biggest problem with driving standards is the almost total lack of regard for the law of the majority of drivers because the likelihood of actually being caught if you aren't speeding is miniscule. Bring back traffic police and fucking book people. :smt013
We'd love to Rob, but the EU won't let us. We have to follow their rules and regs instead of our own fully working legal and judicial system. motorcycle Theory re-tests should be done more to keep people up to date of the rules of the road. A lot of incidents I see are caused by confusion, because they've forgotten what certain road signs and markings mean. Common sense stuff, but the EU won't let us have that either! :smt002
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#18 Post by Kwackerz » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:51 pm

Biggest problem nowadays is all the f*****ng gadgets that are in the average car.. Satnav, hands free, big posh stereo..electric this, that and everything. people sit in their comfy distraction zones and spend an equal amount of time rocking down to Bieber as they do to concentrating on mirrors, signal and move..

Bring back compulsory Mk2 Escorts for all under the age of 30. They can learn how to drive in a proper car first .
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#19 Post by Falcorob » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Willopotomas wrote:
Falcorob wrote:The biggest problem with driving standards is the almost total lack of regard for the law of the majority of drivers because the likelihood of actually being caught if you aren't speeding is miniscule. Bring back traffic police and fucking book people. :smt013
We'd love to Rob, but the EU won't let us. We have to follow their rules and regs instead of our own fully working legal and judicial system. Theory re-tests should be done more to keep people up to date of the rules of the road. A lot of incidents I see are caused by confusion, because they've forgotten what certain road signs and markings mean. Common sense stuff, but the EU won't let us have that either! :smt002
Well Cameron might have taken the first steps to solving that particular issue for you.

I have no problem with refresher courses. I have to take an assessment every six months in my job and the difference between a pass and fail can be VERY expensive so it's in my best interests to keep my driving standards and knowledge quite high. However, I don't think it should be used as an excuse for the Government to milk motorists for even more money.

I firmly believe that the Police should be enforcing the law as it currently stands even if it goes against current EU thinking. We either have laws or we don't. Lets use the ones we currently have to improve standards and awareness first.
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#20 Post by Falcorob » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:57 pm

Kwackerz wrote:Biggest problem nowadays is all the f*****ng gadgets that are in the average car.. Satnav, hands free, big posh stereo..electric this, that and everything. people sit in their comfy distraction zones and spend an equal amount of time rocking down to Bieber as they do to concentrating on mirrors, signal and move..

Bring back compulsory Mk2 Escorts for all under the age of 30. They can learn how to drive in a proper car first .
Put a big sharp spike in the centre of the steering wheel and watch how much better peoples driving suddenly becomes. :smt002
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#21 Post by Samray » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Aren't we doing the same thing with cars? Aren't automakers trying to take away the basic controls from the driver and, thus, situational awareness?
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#22 Post by D-Rider » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:33 pm

Kwackerz wrote:Biggest problem nowadays is all the f*****ng gadgets that are in the average car.. Satnav, hands free, big posh stereo..electric this, that and everything. people sit in their comfy distraction zones and spend an equal amount of time rocking down to Bieber as they do to concentrating on mirrors, signal and move..

Bring back compulsory Mk2 Escorts for all under the age of 30. They can learn how to drive in a proper car first .
Tell me about it - this is the area I work in.
The greatest headache is giving people what they want and doing it safely .... particularly as end users and car companies want greater access to these things when driving than some of us that supply the systems are happy to allow.
Finding ways to allow people to do things safely is the key. Inhibiting things is technically simple but then people will just disconnect from the car and use their smartphones and other CE devices "stand alone" - which is even less safe by some margin.

As for self driving cars and semi-automated driving .... don't get me started ....
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#23 Post by snapdragon » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:52 pm

yeahhhh more tests - Eye tests for preference, and reading tests
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#24 Post by Willopotomas » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Kwackerz wrote:Bring back compulsory Mk2 Escorts for all under the age of 30. They can learn how to drive in a proper car first .
I started my car driving career in a Reliant Robin. Does that count? :smt003

Started on the roads in 1999 on a Honda CG125 before passing my test in 2001. I didn't go down the DAS route and spent two years on a restricted licence. Something else that annoys me are DAS courses.. Mid life crisis types doing their bike tests, crashing, and bumping up insurance premiums. Again.. Let's not get started on that one! :smt012
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#25 Post by TC » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:49 am

Some interesting comments which in turn has made for interesting reading.

I understand what people have said about retesting on theory and even practical, but it won't happen for a number of reasons.

Firstly, as some of you know, I am a subject matter expert for the DSA (part time job) and I am one of those responsible for writing the theory questions when taking their theory test.

The whole project is overseen by an external body who do not have a clue about the Highway Code, and when their errors are pointed out, they just shrug their shoulders. When my daughter took her theory test, she failed first time, and yet she answered the questions correctly, but the answers in the system were (subseqently found out) incorrect, and there are a lot of questions in the bank that are incorrect. Numerous efforts have been made by subject matter experts to correct it, but because of who runs it, you will have more success getting blood out of a stone.

That said, and for those of you old enough to remember, in the old days, when you signed your licence, you were also signing to say that you had read and would maintain your knowledge of the HC. Now it is a book that is only read for the test and then forgotten, because people assume that they know the contents.

Middle lane hoggers are a prime example. I used to stop people for driving in the centre lane when lane 1 was clear, and when I asked the driver what the HC said, they would come up with the standard slow, fast and overtaking lane answer :smt013

So, I would then pull out my copy and aske them to show me where it said that which was usually sufficient to cause at least an embarrased red face :smt003

As far as practical retests are concerned, this was looked at a number of years ago.

The idea was that advanced driving and riding examiners such as myself would be asked to conduct the retests of about 20 minutes duration, and because as advanced examiners we don't agree with the standards applied by the DSA, we would be more lenient and apply the code of safety rather than a strict code of MSM.

The DSA could not cope because of the cost of recruiting more examiners, ande the time it takes to train them, whereas we already have the experience and qualifications to be able to help out.

Also, the number of new L test candidates together with the retests meant that the DSA would have become really bogged down if they went it alone.

However, whilst the principals were being dicussed, some bright spark in Whitehall then pointed out that all drivers are voters, and if introduced, it would without doubt end up being votes lost big time, and so the whole idea was quietly dropped, which was a shame as i was looking to make some welcome extra cash from it :smt002

The problem is always that most drivers and riders pass their test discard their L plates and assume that there is nothing more to learn. Most drivers and riders cannot accept being told that they are a cr@p driver or rider, (the male ego in particular takes a bashing) which is why by percentage so few go onto take an advanced course.

The idea of being retaught how to drive or ride does not sit comfortably with the majority, and of course the older you get then it becomes even more difficult to take criticism on the basis that they have been driving for years and so they must be doing something right.

From an enforcement point of view, much of the problem here started when Chief Constables downsized or did away with their traffic police because they were not considered important front line coppers, even though we caught more crooks, saw more dead people and dealt with more sh1t than the average copper sees in a lifetime.

Some forces are now changing and going back to having front line traffic units, but all the professionla traffic cops we had when I served have now gone along with years of experience, and now, young traffic cops get a 3 week course (ours was over 16 in total), a 1 week traffic law course (we did 14 weeks) and then they are let lose, and most do not have a clue, or are nothing more tan posers in a flash car :smt002

The system is wrong here, but the liklihood of major changes occuring on a scale of 1 - 10 are about -15

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#26 Post by snapdragon » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:10 am

maybe someone needs to make one of those public information telly adverts (of the clunk-click sort that reminds everyone about drink driving etc) but this time about motorway lane discipline :smt001



it don't seem to matter how much I practise - I never get as good as those magazine journos say they are :smt009
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#27 Post by Willopotomas » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:55 pm

The amount of times I've seen poor driving over every aspect is astonishing. If the traffic police were to make a full on come back, they would earn their years rate in a single day around here. Yellow box junctions are a fave.. Had many an argument over how they work with idiots who have no clue.
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#28 Post by D-Rider » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:38 pm

Willopotomas wrote:The amount of times I've seen poor driving over every aspect is astonishing. If the traffic police were to make a full on come back, they would earn their years rate in a single day around here. Yellow box junctions are a fave.. Had many an argument over how they work with idiots who have no clue.
Not sure the traffic cops are going to set much of an example ....

Most recent one I saw a couple of weeks ago on my lunch break.
Unmarked traffic plod BMW with christmas tree lighting ablaze had pulled a van towing a trailer. Turned off of the main road, drove half way along the next stretch and stopped in the zig-zags on the approach to a pedestrian crossing (right up at the crossing) with the van pulled in behind.
Now there were double yellows before that point but they are just no parking. The zig-zags at a crossing are not just no parking but no overtaking etc and signify a far more serious hazard. In fact the police car was obscuring any potential pedestrians from cars approaching the crossing.
It seems that these days not even the traffic police can distinguish the riskier spots or understand how road markings are trying to indicate that to them.
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