Police and my falco

[mrapriliafalco]

I know the stand is not perfect but they are stating "the stand leans the bike over far too much" opposed to being bolt upright.
The bike has never fallen over for me, even after my mates crash when I jumped off the bike with no regard to my safety the bike still stood firm.
I thought they were going to contest the bike being wrote off from falling over not blaming the actual bike !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aladinsaneuk]

please ask your insurers to ask the police for permission to forward me a copy of the letter they wrote as I will discuss it with my insurers on behalf of one of the well known falco rider groups who would obviously be concerned about this .... I dare say we would have to formally approach aprilia for their comments as well....

[HowardQ]

I suppose you will just have to accept that we live in a police state and just accept you will have to pay for your own repairs a stop bothering them!

My next door neighbour was out with his 12 year old daughter and had been following a police car for some time, not too close as you tend not too. All of a sudden the police stopped, stood for 15 seconds or so, then the reversing lights came on and it shot backwards at speed slamming into my neighbour’s car.
One cop got out and came up to may mate’s car and said where the hell did you come from? My mate replied” I’ve been behind you for about a mile, I stopped when you stopped then you shot backwards and ran into me”. The copper mumbled something then went back to talk to his mate in the car. He came back looking more serious, then suddenly noticed the young girl in the front seat and said “where did you come from? You were not in the car when I was here a minute ago". My mate explained that this was his 12 year old daughter she had been in the car all the time, he was taking her shopping, and she had seen everything, his daughter confirmed this.
The police eventually went leaving just a telephone number my neighbour could use to ask about the situation regarding his damaged car, but said they would contact him, they never did. No caution of any sort, no word about careless driving or whatever. My mates’ car, an old Lexus 200, which had two damaged wings, front panel and lights busted up along with the bonnet and damage to door pillar and front passenger door. Anyway my mate thought, he really could have done without this but, hey it’s the police, so it will get sorted quickly, they must have received an emergency call and shot back to go and deal with it, but never saw me. He heard nothing so he rang up and was told it was being dealt with. Repeat this scenario once a week for more than 12 weeks, then leave it a few months. I was talking to him later, asking what was going on and he said oh it’ll be alright, there can’t be a problem it just takes them time, you know what the police are like. I say bollocks it’s gone on way to long you need to go down and see them and demand an update as you need your car sorted, (he was out of work and the car was only on TPFT and he could not afford to pay for it himself).
He did go down, saw some Inspector who promised to get back in about a week. He got a reply about 10 days later, there would be no payment as the accident had been caused by him, he had slammed into the back of the police car, my mate argued but in simple terms he was told to piss off and stop bothering them, as he had absolutely no chance of getting any payment and was lucky they weren’t prosecuting him!.
That’s where it stayed, he has written again but more than a year later he has heard nothing more and given up. He has fixed the lights and bashed the panels around a bit so it is road worthy and he is running the car as it is.
How can something like this happen unless my comments in line 1 were actually true?

Let’s take the simple facts, if he had slammed into the police car, he would have been cautioned at the scene, and a case would have been progressed against him. The first copper obviously checked and assumed there was just one person in the car, went back to decide on a different story with his mate, then came back to caution my neighbour but was completely thrown when he noticed the young girl who supported the story.
How the hell they can now decide, more than a year later that it was all my neighbour’s fault, with no collaborating evidence of my neighbour being cautioned at the time.
I would like to see what went into their accident report.
Regardless of anything else, they would have been claiming for damage to the police car off my neighbour’s insurance if he had in fact “slammed into them”.
It’s a total lie and it should not be possible!
This could never happen somewhere like the UK because our police are absolutely honest. Well the ones that aren’t lying b******s might be.
Trouble is now that very few people have any real respect for them anymore, certainly nothing like they did some years ago, when they were totally trusted.
All very sad really …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
ESPECIALLY for my next door neighbour.

It is starting to look like you are about to suffer a similar fate, and I think you should be fighting this as others will agree.
However, this is obviously not something you should have to be doing at a time when you should be moving on from this whole traumatic experience.
Hope something can be sorted.

[D-Rider]

Howard - I share your concerns about the way that some of the police operate BUT I don't think that mrapriliafalco is on a hiding to nothing.

The police have given themselves enough rope to hang themselves here - even if they consider the stand inadequate, they clearly have not exercised the degree of care that they should. If it's not stable when you leave it you immediately realise it and you take steps to rectify it.

My advice would be to talk it through with TC - he and his colleagues will advise better than any of us and I'm betting they will be able to make some progress with this.

If we are to chip away at these things and stop practice like this becoming more rife in our authorities, we can't let them get away with it and must challenge whenever we have the chance.

Mrapriliafalco - I strongly suggest you PM TC about this - I'm sure he'll be happy to help.

[HowardQ]

I still think he should fight it Andy, as he has some good grounds, and should win.
It is just when it goes on this long and then they suddenly start getting negative, I fear the worst, my neighbour had a stronger case and he lost, when it had never been mentioned in over a year that he had run into the police car, then they just came out with and shut up shop.
He had had a couple of years from hell, his business had failed and in the last few months whilst trying to save it the stress broke his marriage up, so he was totally down and had no fight left in him.

I'd be giving them hell and complain to the Chief Constable and everybody else I could think of, but I'm a stubborn Yorhshire b*****d, who does not like being done over be anybody if I know I'm right. The sad thing is that mrapriliafalco probably really, wants to move on with this now and now he has even more hassle to deal with.
It's a bloody disgrace!

[mrapriliafalco]

This situation is becoming a nightmare, still not over the loss of my mate and it just reminds me of that fateful day.
I feel very guilty thinking of financial issues when the loss of a life happened seems to be very disrespectful, and I still have this shite with the Camera to contend with.
The Insurers have told me not to worry about it at the moment,and are going to ask for evidence to support there theory.
The copper at the time even held his hands up and said it was my fault I hold my hands up and my Sergent knows all about it.
R.I.P SID

[mrapriliafalco]

I suppose you will just have to accept that we live in a police state and just accept you will have to pay for your own repairs a stop bothering them!

My next door neighbour was out with his 12 year old daughter and had been following a police car for some time, not too close as you tend not too. All of a sudden the police stopped, stood for 15 seconds or so, then the reversing lights came on and it shot backwards at speed slamming into my neighbour’s car.
One cop got out and came up to may mate’s car and said where the hell did you come from? My mate replied” I’ve been behind you for about a mile, I stopped when you stopped then you shot backwards and ran into me”. The copper mumbled something then went back to talk to his mate in the car. He came back looking more serious, then suddenly noticed the young girl in the front seat and said “where did you come from? You were not in the car when I was here a minute ago". My mate explained that this was his 12 year old daughter she had been in the car all the time, he was taking her shopping, and she had seen everything, his daughter confirmed this.
The police eventually went leaving just a telephone number my neighbour could use to ask about the situation regarding his damaged car, but said they would contact him, they never did. No caution of any sort, no word about careless driving or whatever. My mates’ car, an old Lexus 200, which had two damaged wings, front panel and lights busted up along with the bonnet and damage to door pillar and front passenger door. Anyway my mate thought, he really could have done without this but, hey it’s the police, so it will get sorted quickly, they must have received an emergency call and shot back to go and deal with it, but never saw me. He heard nothing so he rang up and was told it was being dealt with. Repeat this scenario once a week for more than 12 weeks, then leave it a few months. I was talking to him later, asking what was going on and he said oh it’ll be alright, there can’t be a problem it just takes them time, you know what the police are like. I say bollocks it’s gone on way to long you need to go down and see them and demand an update as you need your car sorted, (he was out of work and the car was only on TPFT and he could not afford to pay for it himself).
He did go down, saw some Inspector who promised to get back in about a week. He got a reply about 10 days later, there would be no payment as the accident had been caused by him, he had slammed into the back of the police car, my mate argued but in simple terms he was told to piss off and stop bothering them, as he had absolutely no chance of getting any payment and was lucky they weren’t prosecuting him!.
That’s where it stayed, he has written again but more than a year later he has heard nothing more and given up. He has fixed the lights and bashed the panels around a bit so it is road worthy and he is running the car as it is.
How can something like this happen unless my comments in line 1 were actually true?

Let’s take the simple facts, if he had slammed into the police car, he would have been cautioned at the scene, and a case would have been progressed against him. The first copper obviously checked and assumed there was just one person in the car, went back to decide on a different story with his mate, then came back to caution my neighbour but was completely thrown when he noticed the young girl who supported the story.
How the hell they can now decide, more than a year later that it was all my neighbour’s fault, with no collaborating evidence of my neighbour being cautioned at the time.
I would like to see what went into their accident report.
Regardless of anything else, they would have been claiming for damage to the police car off my neighbour’s insurance if he had in fact “slammed into them”.
It’s a total lie and it should not be possible!
This could never happen somewhere like the UK because our police are absolutely honest. Well the ones that aren’t lying b******s might be.
Trouble is now that very few people have any real respect for them anymore, certainly nothing like they did some years ago, when they were totally trusted.
All very sad really …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
ESPECIALLY for my next door neighbour.

It is starting to look like you are about to suffer a similar fate, and I think you should be fighting this as others will agree.
However, this is obviously not something you should have to be doing at a time when you should be moving on from this whole traumatic experience.
Hope something can be sorted.

[bluedimension]

Is your tarpot empty yet Howard?

The issue that mrapriliafalco is experiencing will in all likelihood be to do with some administration department within that Police Force and not the individual officers who dealt with the incident. Indeed as he has recently explained the copper put his hands up and admitted it was his fault.

Again the issues surrounding this unfortunate episode will be to do with some penny pinching admin' dept.

I am with D-rider on this one. The copper(s) who handled the Falco have a duty to look after property in their charge. Presumeably they were Traffic Officers and not "local" plod and thereby should have been versed in the characteristics and pitfalls of handling bikes.

This unfortunately may drag on but the insurance company need to take a robust stance on this matter.

As for your neighbour and his run in with the law I feel he definitely needs to pursue a complaint against the officers involved in the scenario you describe.

The IPCC are worth contacting as they can bring pressure to bare on any complaint investigation. The behaviour of these officers needs to be examined as I think further scrutiny may reveal what really happened depending on what physical evidence was obtained after the collision. Your neighbour may not wish to subject his 12 year old daughter to become a witness but it is possible and I feel it is wothy of further consideration.
There are thousands of honest hard working coppers doing a sterling job and only a few bad apples alienating the public and giving lots of ammunition to people who a ready to knock them at any opportunity.

Good luck to you all.

[Firestarter]

mrapriliafalco, why can't your insurance get it sorted, and then claim back from the police force,? Then you get sorted, and it's an arguement between the insurer and the police? Don't know if this helps, but have you got legal cover as part of your insurance? If so, get them to task on it.

As for the fault on the side-stand, if the police have this information, surely they should have passed it to trading standards such that they can pursue a claim against Aprilia for supplying faulty kit? It's (presumably) CE marked somewhere, so if the police have information that the bike is not fit for purpose then TSA will surely be aware? Sounds like a stalling tactic, someone has evidently picked up somewhere that we all change the stand, therefore it's faulty.

Does the copper in question have any training as a bike officer? If not, then he shouldn't have been handling your bike in the first place. Before I get jumped on, people do things out of the perception of necessity and the copper maybe thought he was helping by moving the bike, but if he's not competent then he shouldn't have touched the bike, if he was competent then he's moved the bike from a stable position to one that isn't stable causing the damage, if he was competent to move the bike then he should have known better. If the bike was fine to begin with, and through his actions it has become damaged, then the police force is liable, end of story.

I do wonder if it is the police force that is actually causing the problem, or whether they have some form of Public Liability insurance (same as companies do, are maybe some central compensation section in the police force), and it is this insurer/central organisation that is causing the hold up. I doubt it is the persons in the local force causing the holdup

[Chabby]

I do wonder if it is the police force that is actually causing the problem, or whether they have some form of Public Liability insurance (same as companies do, are maybe some central compensation section in the police force), and it is this insurer/central organisation that is causing the hold up. I doubt it is the persons in the local force causing the holdup

Exactly my thoughts- this smells of an insurance company trying to wriggle out of a payment.

[HowardQ]

Is your tarpot empty yet Howard?

I don't have a tar pot!
I was just making a comment in two situations where I think people have been very badly done by. In both these occasions the people involved were not in a position, for personal reasons, where they wanted to go through all this extra hassle when they just expected a reasonably quick resolution to something that was very obviously not their fault.
The fact that many months down the road somebody seems to be trying to turn these two issues around to blame the other side is probably more down to some toe rag in the finance office who has been told to wriggle out of payment if he possibly can, because they don't have the budget to pay out any more.
I have quite a few relatives who have served in the police or still are including an ex ACC, an Inspecter and a couple of sergeants etc..
If you heard the ex Asst Chief Constables views on the current force you would cringe.
It is not about the blokes on the street, as you say, most of them are good, although a few do make things look bad. It is the way things are being run these days, good old fashioned policing the community died years ago. (Ooooops sorry I forgot about the CSOs, then again most are best forgotten).
Unfortunately if anybody develops a tainted view of the police service, as you may think I have, it comes from a perception of the whole service, including the toe rag in finance trying to avoid paying for genuine damages.
Unlike some people, I never comment based on what I see in the media, only from personal experience.
Like many other people in Yorkshire, I lived in a mining village during the Miners Strike, Kiveton. The village cop lived on the end of our road and I knew him very well, as he was also a biker. Throughout the strike we had coppers from down south (Brighton etc.) etc. winding up the miners and kicking the shit out of them at every oportunity, never mind the waving of £20 notes at the miners who'd had no income for months.
The local cop did everything to keep away from all this and resigned staight after the strike ended. He told me, exact words - "I could never look anybody in the village in the face again after what those b******s have done to it"
The police house got buldozed anyway, (probably sold off to help balance the budget), cos we don't do local village beat cops anymore. Worst move the police ever made, as he knew everything that went off in the village, including all the villians and toe rags, and everybody in the village knew and respected him. He seemed to have the incredible skill of remembering almost everybody by name, which alwyas helped.
All ancient history I know, but policy changes like this have gone a long way to changing peoples views of the service, and they are now in a place miles away from the people they are supposed to "serve" I'm afraid.
The sad thing is that almost every cop I talk to does not really want to be there!

Perhaps this should post really be in Andy's other thread!
Sorry mrapriliafalco.

[mrapriliafalco]

It was mentioned why insurance COMPANYS cannot sort this out between themselfs.
Well what has happened is that my insurance company have paid me out, I bought another silver Falco,went to change the bike over but because they had paid me out and not recovered the costs they will not renew my policy.
I can either wait until the police pay up and then pay adjustment fee of £30 or reinsure with another company without my full no claims.

[Firestarter]

It was mentioned why insurance COMPANYS cannot sort this out between themselfs.
Well what has happened is that my insurance company have paid me out, I bought another silver Falco,went to change the bike over but because they had paid me out and not recovered the costs they will not renew my policy.
I can either wait until the police pay up and then pay adjustment fee of £30 or reinsure with another company without my full no claims.

Shouldn't matter a damn, mate (I had picked up that you'd been paid out, but got a bit confused). If your insurance has paid out, I see know reason why they shouldn't be able to get you back on the road. Just cos there's a dispute with the police ongoing, that shouldn't affect the continuation of your policy? Has your policy now lapsed, or is it still valid? Cos if the latter, I'm sure that they've got no recourse other than to let you get back on the road. If the former, I'm not too sure, but I'm sure that you should be able to get something sorted.

[K_D]

I dont regularly peruse this site nowadays but couldnt help notice a link to this thread in general.

I dont have all the background to this but it appears a fatal RTC occurred in scotland and a cop moved a bike that subsequently fell off its sidestand and was written off ........and subsequently the insurer paid up but wont continue the policy untill the matter is determined between the police force insurer and the bike insurer........

If thats the case then the RTC report should have been submitted within 5 days to the FHQ of the force concerned...the bike insurer then has to pay an admin fee and obtain a copy which will contain the insurance details of the force concerned.........then the two insurance companies start wrangling over liability and payment.......

If you wish to complain about the officer who moved your bike ,attend at any police office in the UK and give a senior officer a statement......as the police complaints commision dont have any juristiction in scotland .......dont go down that route........tell them where it happened and the statement will be forwarded to the force concerned.

If you wish to complain about the time taken to determine liability.....a qick phone call to the road policing /traffic stats dept involved should uncover the unique reference number of the RTC,you just need your name ,date time and locus of the incident,then you can check with your insurers that the police filed the correct paperwork timeously.





If this was within limits then complain to the police insurers.

[mrapriliafalco]

Your statement is pretty much spot on.
dont have all the background to this but it appears a fatal RTC occurred in scotland and a cop moved a bike that subsequently fell off its sidestand and was written off ........and subsequently the insurer paid up but wont continue the policy untill the matter is determined between the police force insurer and the bike insurer........


My insurer say they will terminate a policy but will continue if the third party was to blame,and yes I only took the insurance out around 3 weeks before this happened.
As for the police officer he was really a genuinely nice guy who bent over backwards to make sure the welfare of me and my other friends were his top concern, which I have guilt about when trying to pursue this claim.
I dont know what to do about this at the moment I guess I will await the outcome of my solicitors letter regarding there accusations of my standard but faulty side stand that caused the bike to drop.
RIP sid
As for the time its taking I have all the time in the world I guess, unlike my still best mate SID.