Fully synthetic V Semi synthetic oil

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Do you use semi or fully synth oil?

Semi
18
78%
Full
5
22%
 
Total votes: 23

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Thumper
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#16 Post by Thumper » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:28 pm

Guys don't get hung up with the "it's to thin thing" Oil has additives which are designed to perform varying tasks in many different engine environments.
It is a by product of refining process and has varying grades and that's before they add anything.
Multigrades are just that, they are designed to flow at low temperature and molecules expand with heat giving enhanced properties to keep metal surfaces apart and lubricated as they expand.
I use a semi- synthetic because as falco9 rightly says it's false economy to use expensive oils unless you want extended service times or race.

So 10-40 or 15-50 grade ? personally I use 10-40 in winter and 15-50 in summer, that way I feel I have it covered.
There is a valued argument in the light of recent hot summers that 05-50 full synthetic is a fits all motor oil.
I work on the basis that if you leave oil changes longer then the oil will hold more dirt and metal particles in suspension, dirt is not good so I change my oil more often :smt002

Full synthetic oil if there is such a thing tends to be enriched with all kinds of friction enhances to aid fuel consumption amongst other things, this is why it tends not to be good for wet clutches it builds up on the plate surfaces causing slippage, most are designed for cars that don't use them.
I personally think Mobil 1 motor oil is one of the very best but I wouldn't use it in my new engine because it is so good you will probably never get it to bed down properly. :smt003

OK incoming :smt020

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#17 Post by fastasfcuk » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:15 pm

Fausto wrote:I'm back.....

............ and now I'm worried !!

Just checked the container and it's Silkolene Comp 4 fully synthetic 10 - 40.

Not too bothered whether it affects the clutch - if it does I'll change to semi - but is it too thin?

Aprilia recommend 15-50. - synthetic by the way
Silkolene recommend 15-50 - also synthetic (Pro 4)

Presumably I'm fine for now but should change to heavier oil (15-50) for the warmer weather ???
thats to thin mate,when the cylinders on the combustion stroke it will squeze the oil out between the shells and the crank, ouch.i would change it tomorrow.

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Aladinsaneuk
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#18 Post by Aladinsaneuk » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:21 pm

being very sad, i dug out my owners handbook and had a read:

Engine Oil - recommended - Extra Raid 4, SAE 15W -50

http://www.benzina-ipplus.com/lubrifica ... raraid.asp for the manufacturers site which I believe is FULLY synthetic
(But my feng shui with italian is crap so please double check....)

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#19 Post by Aladinsaneuk » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:26 pm

actually my italian is crap - may be a synthetic base so would be not fully synthetic......

sorry !

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#20 Post by Kwackerz » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:31 pm

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/archiv ... 65684.html

:smt002 partially synth. according to an RSV owner...

dammit that link didnt pan to the thread.. lemme find it if I can

*edit*

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/showth ... light=raid
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#21 Post by Samray » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:43 pm

Kwackerz wrote:http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/archiv ... 65684.html

:smt002 partially synth. according to an RSV owner...

dammit that link didnt pan to the thread.. lemme find it if I can

*edit*

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/showth ... light=raid
Do you think Alaska or Chicago would be the fairer comparison? :smt083

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#22 Post by Kwackerz » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:50 pm

:smt002 Probably Alaska..
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#23 Post by D-Rider » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:13 am

OK - quick overview of my understanding of the Fully / Semi Skimmed (sorry, Synth) debate - mainly picked up from the AF1 forum chaps.

"Fully Synth causes Clutch Slip" - This seems to be reported by a number of people, but seems to affect earlier Falcos that were built before Aprilia improved the clutch.

"Changing from Semi Synth to Fully Synth causes Clutch Slip" (or, sometimes, vice versa) - This seems to cause problems occasionally but less so since the uprated clutch was introduced.

As for my Falco - well it's a recent model so has the improved clutch. Still under warranty so dealer serviced so far. The service bills state that it has been fed with Fully Synth ... so that's what I presume its got in it unless the dealer is ripping me off.
I've had no problems.

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#24 Post by Thumper » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:10 am

Whats your oil consumption like D-Rider and does she smoke a little?

My falco used full synthetic oil whilst the dealer serviced it and the clutch started letting go around 18k. It also drank engine oil and needed regular top ups.

A friend who works for Castrol advised me to run my bike on a mineral oil for 2k miles, it has not used a drop of oil since switching back to a quality semi synthetic :smt001

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#25 Post by D-Rider » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:46 am

Thumper wrote:Whats your oil consumption like D-Rider and does she smoke a little?

My falco used full synthetic oil whilst the dealer serviced it and the clutch started letting go around 18k. It also drank engine oil and needed regular top ups.

A friend who works for Castrol advised me to run my bike on a mineral oil for 2k miles, it has not used a drop of oil since switching back to a quality semi synthetic :smt001
I guess it's early days for me Thumper - still only done about 5.5k on my Falco.
A bit before the last service, I did notice the oil level had dropped a bit and had to top it up. Since the service I've not noticed the level drop (yet). I'll see how things go but the mineral oil tip is an interesting one if consumption gets worse. I guess the problem is that fully synths may just be too good and don't allow the parts to bed in properly. Presumably that's the idea of a limited mileage on mineral oil - a bit more wear to bed the parts in before swapping back to a better lubricant.

Incidentally, my Dad used to work for Castrol at their research place at Pangbourne. I also worked there one summer during my degree - basically spannering the engines that they had on engine test. Think I must have done a good job as they offered me the chance to stay on with them rather than go back to study - but having worked for 5 years beforehand, I wasn't going to give up on the chance to finish my studies.

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#26 Post by Thumper » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:39 pm

Wise of you to go back to study wish I had had the opportunity but Interesting work I often watched the guys at Ethel petroleum formally Castrol in Bracknell even a little involvement with the tests they run. I found oil technology fascinating and got to read lots of results because my wife used to help prepare them for publication. :smt001

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#27 Post by Fausto » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:03 pm

While we are talking about oil (well I am anyway) are we allowed to mix makes / types ?

I wouldn't do it at home but if on a tour and the level was low can I top up with any oil or what?

Last time I lugged a bottle of oil around with me but never needed it (good old bandit). Next time (and on the Falco of course) I will travel light so could do without carrying spare oil.

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#28 Post by Kwackerz » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:46 pm

You can mix Synthetic and mineral, 5w and 10w, Castrol and Shell, however the properties of the mixed oils will be affected and won't be what they say on the Tin.

I wouldnt chuck Synthetic in an Old Escort that's been run on mineral oil though. It'll leak like a seive.

As a get by for the Bike though? Cant see any long term harm being done. It shouldnt react and film up your clutch or anything.

DONT mix antifreezes though.

Mixing Antifreezes can cause horrid results. If you mix a Volvo truck antifreeze with the Army-wide used Antifreeze, it will gunge up your cooling system and knacker the engine as heat wont be dissipated as it should be, you'll get hotspots and all sorts.

Not that everyone is going to use the Volvo stuff and Army antifreeze, but the same will happen, well, can happen with other brands and as you're not going to carry out a series of tests outside 'Le Halfordes' in france, etc, you could be unlucky enough to have the problem.
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Fausto
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#29 Post by Fausto » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:42 pm

When you say mix antifreeze do you mean top up or literally mix?

I assume that if replacing old fluid with a new but different sort ( and having flushed out the system ) then there's no problem ??

Actually I feel that I have answered this myself...... there won't be enough old stuff ( if any ) to cause a problem.

So why am I still posting this ?

Well someone may benefit.... and it's one more closer to promotion eh? :smt003

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#30 Post by Kwackerz » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:00 pm

Indeed fausto!

Yeah. The problem we encountered, which is a valid problem, is that we received new Volvo trucks. Come the first service out of warranty, the guys changed the antifreeze.. I'll let you imagine the results.

We were told to avoid problems that to avoid problems,
1. Drain old coolant/antifreeze,
2. Flush system fully with distilled water
3. Refill with chosen new coolant/antifreeze

Clearly a bike is going to use a lot less, however the chance of a problem are equal. If you have to top up the antifreeze/coolant that much that the system's Specific Gravity drops that low that it requires additional fluid (as opposed to water) then I'd say summat is wrong.
Ive never had to top up with anything but distilled water on the bike. (distilled reduces fur forming on the radiator plates)
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