do you believe there is a god?

[fatboy]

It is too easy to be labelled/hoodwinked ect.
Any form of religion, regardless of name preaches tolerance, understanding and goodwill, the very basics we need for life.
Any deviation from that is extreme,

[flatlander]

don't want to do lots of quotes from other posts but ...

Erik Von Daniken (sp?) chariots of the gods did a series of these books if I recall and I think a SF writer ... Ray Bradbury (?) did one about the same time
Basically IIRC creatures from another time / place visited. see the Mayan csystem of numerology etc. and the layout of various temple type structures based on mathematical lines.

Science s flawed as is statistics, your own bias often prevents you from seeing anything other than you look for ... same as other belief systems I suppose... Radio 4 are doing something about the replacement of other beliefs with a faith in science and the loss of scientific neutrality and validity.

I agree with a lot of the comments mostly the overall tone of; what I believe is existentialism basically do what you like as long as you aren't trying to harm anyone else.

I do think however there has to be a division between belief / faith; religion and science as three distinct elements

For me most faith and belief in and of itself (excusing out and out nutters - meaning those whose belief follows their own internal extremism) isn't a bad thing however when that becomes organised it appears that the demagogue or clever politician is able to pervert the essence of that belief and twist it to other ends.

so yes for faith (which for me includes science its just another faith / belief) no to most religions

now I apologise in advance for getting this next bit wrong but I think it is the Seikh faith that includes extracts from other religions most sacred works into their own principal scripts. seems like a nice idea if it were applied whole heartedly

As far as if gods exist... they do if you believe in them ....even if they are called professor peabody

[BikerGran]

Funny thing about science, following on from what you said - Mike and I were just saying the other day - there are scientific 'facts' we were taught at school, not as theories but actual facts - that are now know to be complete bunkum!

[D-Rider]

..... and there are scientific facts that are extremely serviceable but with new information do not completely describe the full reality.

There is a lot of science that resembles faith and dogma too.

One of the important things when working in science /engineering is to understand that we don't understand it all. Some things will prove to be excellent models and other things will turn out to be built on sand ..... especially where corroborating evidence is extracted from models that are built on the same principles as the theories they are being used to investigate and corroborate.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking science - I make my living from its application.


Faith and science are not unconnected. It's a great oversimplification but it can help to regard science as trying to explain the "How" and "religion" in giving answers to the "Why".

I work mainly with Engineers (applied scientists). In our team over many years we have consistently had about 25% of the team who have a strong "religious" faith (not of one variety) and see absolutely no contradiction between the two.
You may say that it's "only" 25% but I think we all realise that in this day and age where it is perceived that science and religion don't mix, approx 25% is not insignificant.

Of course this neither proves nor disproves there is a God.
I have yet to find strong enough evidence that there isn't.
I have been through enough life experiences to satisfy myself that there is. I don't expect others to accept that there is a God just because I've satisfied myself - it's up to them to resolve that one for themselves (though if they want input from me then I'll do what I can)

Indeed I could be deluding myself .... but I'm content that I'm not.

[blinkey501]

[BikerGran]

Ah - but neither does religion (replying to the small print under the picture)

That's PEOPLE - using religion for their own ends.

Just like, guns don't kill people - people kill people!

And I think actually that we're now getting too close to the point where this thread might need to be moderated which would be a pity as it's rather interesting so far.

Those of us who've stated our faith WERE asked to do so!

[mangocrazy]

Yes - I'd agree with the text in the photo; the comment below is just inviting an argument. It's true of a vanishingly small minority, but not the great majority of people who describe themselves as religious.

And this is from a confirmed agnostic.

[Apriliabas]

Well I must admit to skipping over some of the above comments but, as a Christian and a Creationist, I feel I must have my pennies worth.
I used to believe in the Big Bang, before I became a Christian.
Most people never go any further than that, though.
So. How did humans, crocodiles, birds, fish and every other creature on the earth, and plants etc. come into existance?
Some say we all came out of the slime and swamps. How? Were humans fully formed from blobs? They can't have been babies. Babies cannot feed or look after themselves. How did we know when, how and what to eat? Oh, there's a nice looking berry. Whoops! Poisonous. We die. Why is there a male and a female in most species? The human body is very complex. So, it's all by chance and not designed? Why do we have morals and a conscience? The 10 commandments are included in modern laws.
The flood would probably have created the Ice Age (and upset carbon dating theories) - all that moisture going into the air afterwards would have covered the world in cloud for a long time. Yes, baby dinosaurs could have been on the Arc. A stone coffin from the 13th century with various animals decorating it has been found in Britain with, guess what? A carving of a dinosaur on it. So, they died out millions of years ago? Marrow has been found in dinosaur bones.
Nothing against science. It doesn't have to be a complete opposite to religious beliefs. Some theories are just that - theories. Someone comes up with a theory and then goes out to prove it. There are plenty of Christian scientists and Christian GPs.
I am not out to convert anyone but I would like them to ponder on how everything came into existance.
And no! We didn't evolve from apes (along with many other species that didn't evolve into another creature).
Just a few points. Could go on for hours (spent 3 hours in pub last night battling a staunch atheist!).

[BikerGran]

All very interesting - but as a Christian I have enough difficulty living here and now without worrying how it all came into being!

I don't find the scientific theories at all difficult to reconcile with the Old Testament stories which have to be a mixture of folklore and legend and myth, as they were not written down but passed on through word of mouth. I don't believe that every word is true, but I do believe there's a lot of truth in them.

[Dalemac]

Well I must admit to skipping over some of the above comments but, as a Christian and a Creationist, I feel I must have my pennies worth.
I used to believe in the Big Bang, before I became a Christian.
Most people never go any further than that, though.
So. How did humans, crocodiles, birds, fish and every other creature on the earth, and plants etc. come into existance?
Some say we all came out of the slime and swamps. How? Were humans fully formed from blobs? They can't have been babies. Babies cannot feed or look after themselves. How did we know when, how and what to eat? Oh, there's a nice looking berry. Whoops! Poisonous. We die. Why is there a male and a female in most species? The human body is very complex. So, it's all by chance and not designed? Why do we have morals and a conscience? The 10 commandments are included in modern laws.
The flood would probably have created the Ice Age (and upset carbon dating theories) - all that moisture going into the air afterwards would have covered the world in cloud for a long time. Yes, baby dinosaurs could have been on the Arc. A stone coffin from the 13th century with various animals decorating it has been found in Britain with, guess what? A carving of a dinosaur on it. So, they died out millions of years ago? Marrow has been found in dinosaur bones.
Nothing against science. It doesn't have to be a complete opposite to religious beliefs. Some theories are just that - theories. Someone comes up with a theory and then goes out to prove it. There are plenty of Christian scientists and Christian GPs.
I am not out to convert anyone but I would like them to ponder on how everything came into existance.
And no! We didn't evolve from apes (along with many other species that didn't evolve into another creature).
Just a few points. Could go on for hours (spent 3 hours in pub last night battling a staunch atheist!).

So you have nothing against science but then go on to completely rubbish natural selection and evolution.

Dinosaurs on the arc? And in the 13th century? Sources please...

Do you also believe in the 6000 year old earth 'theory'.

The Bible does tell us, however, that the fossils we find could not have been buried before God created Adam. The animals whose bones became fossilized had to have died after God created Adam. That means those fossils must be less than 6,000 years old. Here's why:

How do we get fossils?

The animal has to first die. That's rather obvious. When did death enter the world? Not until Genesis chapter three when Adam and Eve disobey God. So up until that time neither people nor animals died. So, based on the Bible, there could not be any bones to create fossils until after the fall.

If you can read that quote and alarm bells are not ringing then perhaps you should diversify your night time reading.

[jonnie_r]

I don't believe in God. Simple as. I'm perfectly happy with the theory of evolution and natural selection, after all it has taken millions of years to get where we are today, shame we'll wipe out this fantastic planet of ours in less time than it took us to evolve, but hey thats progress

The decay of an atom can be scientifically measured(called half life) and this is how they do carbon dating. Whilst not always exact it can put things in a ball park of years. There are plenty of artefacts and fossils that far exceed the claimed 6000 year age of earth.

I have nothing against people having their own beliefs, and if someone could come up with compelling scientific evidence, not hearsay and interpretation based on a textual document then great. At that point I may change my view.

Religion has first and foremost been a control measure for the wealthy to use against the lower classes. They preach morality whilst doing what they want. I appreciate this doesn't happen so much now, but many historical religious figures are hardly the saints they paint themselves out to be.

Of course we could all just be stuck in the matrix, with our brains connected to a computer, being manipulated into believeing what they want us to believe.

[randomsquid]

Were humans fully formed from blobs?

Not met many of the people on here yet then?

[blinkey501]

Were humans fully formed from blobs?

Not met many of the people on here yet then?

[Firestarter]

Were humans fully formed from blobs?

Not met many of the people on here yet then?

Quite agree. Forum members are blobs fully formed from humans