using a vehicle re taxed but not displaying

Message

fatboy · #1 Post by **fatboy** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:18 pm

What is the legal stance on this these days ?
I was told at work today to take a vehicle out under these circumstances, and told it will be fine

Shetland Woody · #2 Post by **Shetland Woody** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:46 pm

I wondered the same thing but I presume you will still get done for not displaying the tax. What the fine for that is, I have no idea.

Willopotomas · #3 Post by **Willopotomas** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:57 pm

Funny you should mention this. I like to test things when it comes to what you can and can't get away with. The non-displaying of a tax disk being one of them.

Last year when I taxed the car, I decided not to display the disk and see how long it would take some authority to notice. It turns out that I can quite happily drive up and down the country, park wherever and leave the car outside the house, drive through supposed ANPR systems and random drink-drive road blocks without anyone batting an eye. During this time I did receive a parking ticket however, but for supposed illegal parking rather than an out of date tax disk. (to which I appealed and won.. twats). It wasn't until some half-wit of a PCSO just happened to glance down at the car, notice the licence had 'expired' and came and knocked the door to let me know. It's a good job he caught me in a particularly good mood as he was being a bit of a prat.. Any other day, he would've been told to come back with someone in a position of authority rather than carrying a bad attitude. Anyway.. I stuffed the disk into the holder without separating it from the paper (mail order tax disk see). He then went on to tell me he rides his bicycle up and down the street most days and was surprised he didn't spot it before.

The tax disk in question expired 08-12. The PCSO eegit didn't spot it until 07-13. As he left I told him to keep up the good work.

The law does say you have to display it however, and if you catch someone on an off day, they could take you to task. Chances are if the vehicle is legal, then you'll just get a ticking off for not displaying it. With all the databases dibble have at their disposal, they would probably be told to get a grip by the courts..lol

Irishness · #4 Post by **Irishness** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:26 pm

I actually spoke to a guy about this a week ago and he said now you do not have to show it on your bike. We didn't go into detail but I am seeing him on Friday and ask where he got this info.

I know last year in North Yorkshire I got a what I thought was a ticket but it was a warning that I had not displayed a tax disk nothing came of it nor have I ever displayed it. It's always under my seat.

On a different note back in Ireland you have to display two disks on your bike/car one for tax and the other is an insurance disk.

T.C. · #5 Post by **T.C.** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:53 pm

The law is quite specific, a valid tax disc must be displayed on the nearside front of the vehicle or adjacent to it.

By adjacent to the nearside means that if it is stuck up behind for example the rear view mirror, then that is quite acceptable, but technically (as I tend to do) if you mount it down by say the rear foot rest hangers, the the offence is complete.

Likewise, mount it on the offside (even though its displayed) could still result in being done for failing to display.

Failing to display is a seperate offence to using without, and whilst there is the statutory defence of being allowed to use a vehicle without displaying providing the tax disc has been applied for (online applications), some little Hitler could if they wish still book for failing to display.

As said by someone else, somewhat daft these days given that everything is now recorded electronically and databases are easily checked, but the offence of failing to display remains.

Hope that helps?

wayno · #6 Post by **wayno** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:03 am

I haven't had a valid tax disc displayed on my bike for about 3 years. I have a big folder with them in and it's all legal (apart from the none display part).

As TC says, it is a legal requirement to have it displayed in the correct place, but I should imagine if anyone tried to impose a fine or something similar you could argue the case and it wouldn't even make court as it would be thrown out for being frivilous.

That said if you were being done for a list of offences and the officer was in a bad mood, they could easily chuck that onto the list to make your situation worse.

T.C. · #7 Post by **T.C.** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:39 am

wayno wrote: but I should imagine if anyone tried to impose a fine or something similar you could argue the case and it wouldn't even make court as it would be thrown out for being frivilous.

Bear in mind though that it does not have to be a copper that reports for this offence, traffic wardens and parking attendants can also report for the offence, and there have I know been some people given a ticket for the offence.

Does not happen often, but it can and does happen.

wayno · #8 Post by **wayno** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:15 am

Bloody parking hitlers :)

lazarus · #9 Post by **lazarus** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:15 pm

why moan? Its the law. Either obey it or dont do and risk a fine. Just like speed limits or MoT tests or indeed any other offence.

Got mine displayed in the correct area. Completely unreadable since the disc holder leaks so whether that is an offence or not I dont know.

Out of curiosity, why not display anyway. Surely you are better off displaying and taking the risk of some towrag nicking it than you are never displaying it. In both scenarios you have taxed the bike, but in the first you have complied with the display bi at least until the disc disappears.

T.C. · #10 Post by **T.C.** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:31 pm

lazarus wrote:why moan? Its the law. Either obey it or dont do and risk a fine. Just like speed limits or MoT tests or indeed any other offence.

Got mine displayed in the correct area. Completely unreadable since the disc holder leaks so whether that is an offence or not I dont know.

Out of curiosity, why not display anyway. Surely you are better off displaying and taking the risk of some towrag nicking it than you are never displaying it. In both scenarios you have taxed the bike, but in the first you have complied with the display bi at least until the disc disappears.

Spot on.

And if it gets stolen, report it to the Police, it has to be recorded and that is your proof that it was displayed in the first place and thereby becomes your statutory defence.

It is only a piece of paper after all.

fatboy · #11 Post by **fatboy** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:07 pm

lazarus wrote:why moan? Its the law. Either obey it or dont do and risk a fine. Just like speed limits or MoT tests or indeed any other offence.

Got mine displayed in the correct area. Completely unreadable since the disc holder leaks so whether that is an offence or not I dont know.

Out of curiosity, why not display anyway. Surely you are better off displaying and taking the risk of some towrag nicking it than you are never displaying it. In both scenarios you have taxed the bike, but in the first you have complied with the display bi at least until the disc disappears.

I was refering to a company vehicle,not a private vehicle. I had only the word of my idiot supervisor that the vehicle had been taxed, I refused to drive it until my manager confirmed it had NOT yet been retaxed.
If you renew your tax online,there will be the few days of 'failing to display' because you cant display

Aladinsaneuk · #12 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:24 pm

Suffolk plod will do a ticket if not displayed

They will do you for not displaying on the near side as well

Some officers in Suffolk bear more than a passing resemblence to a well known Anglo Saxon king with an aversion to water

I think it was 'King Cnut

BikerGran · #13 Post by **BikerGran** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:57 pm

fatboy wrote: If you renew your tax online,there will be the few days of 'failing to display' because you cant display

When you renew online it does say that you are given 5 days grace re displaying for that reason.

lazarus · #14 Post by **lazarus** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:11 pm

fatboy wrote: I was refering to a company vehicle,not a private vehicle. I had only the word of my idiot supervisor that the vehicle had been taxed, I refused to drive it until my manager confirmed it had NOT yet been retaxed.

Quite right too. I'd be interested in knowing from TC who would get the fine etc had you used the vehicle. Would it have been the company / the secretrary / or you? Safety wise you are entitled to assume that a vehicle provided for you by your company on an ad hoc basis is safe and has been maintained. I would have thought you were entitled to assume it was legal with tax disc and insurance as well. I never checked any of these things when I borrowed a company car or for that matter when I hired one

fatboy wrote:If you renew your tax online,there will be the few days of 'failing to display' because you cant display

How come? You can order on line well before the due date and this is one ( only one?) govt IT service that works weel with the disc arriving in a day or two at the most.

T.C. · #15 Post by **T.C.** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:45 pm

lazarus wrote:
Quite right too. I'd be interested in knowing from TC who would get the fine etc had you used the vehicle. Would it have been the company / the secretrary / or you? Safety wise you are entitled to assume that a vehicle provided for you by your company on an ad hoc basis is safe and has been maintained. I would have thought you were entitled to assume it was legal with tax disc and insurance as well. I never checked any of these things when I borrowed a company car or for that matter when I hired one

Both could get done. The driver for using, and the company and/or owner for aid and abet by permitting, causing or using the vehicle to be used.

Even though an employer or company may be the owner, in law they are also still regarded as the user.