Time and distance camera's

[blinkey501]

I have noticed on my travels quite a few of the time and distance camera's popping up over the last couple of years.
The A614 from ollerton roundabout all the way to nottingham, and the A6097 that branches off the A614 down to the A46 leicester to newark road.
Also Gringley bypass and between beckingham roundabouts.
The one thing that does come to mind is three out of the four roads are dual carriageways.
This should allow YOU time to overtake the lorrys that travel at 40 MPH on these roads, but with massive amounts of cars/vans that get stuck behind these vehicles the speed limits make it hard for the traffic to clear.
This sometimes makes drivers take "Risks" has they get frustrated and try to over take in unsuitable places?
Also i do know that some of the roads have a accident black spot, but the full stretch sometimes four to five miles still come under the umbrella of the camera's.
The most upsetting thing is the 50 MPH restrictions.
I am not sure that this is viable has i think a 60 MPH restriction would be ok.
I know there is a few that "Take the piss" with excessive speed but they too obviously would be restricted to 60 MPH.
This is not a rant but a point of view, and it think it would in some cases make the roads a safer place.
I look forward to your views on this

[D-Rider]

Yes - and very soon it's going to be made very easy for them to be switched to 40 mph limits.

Ah well - I can look forward to the employment opportunities of walking in front of vehicles waving my red flag ...........

Another issue of these low speed limits is the reduction in the driving load to levels where people loose concentration on the driving task. They will also be tempted to fill that spare capacity with no-driving tasks - like texting.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if the accident rate goes up.

[Willopotomas]

Most speed restrictions are just plain daft, and as has been said will no doubt end up in an increase in the accident rate.

[HisNibbs]

Yes - and very soon it's going to be made very easy for them to be switched to 40 mph limits.

Ah well - I can look forward to the employment opportunities of walking in front of vehicles waving my red flag ...........

Another issue of these low speed limits is the reduction in the driving load to levels where people loose concentration on the driving task. They will also be tempted to fill that spare capacity with no-driving tasks - like texting.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if the accident rate goes up.

I agree absolutely with this as the logical conclusion of excessive speed restrictions..... The sensible advise in the highway code, for overtaking on a single carriageway is to pass as quickly as possible. Does seem contrary to a but not exceeding 50 or even 60 mph.....

[blinkey501]

May has well sell the 1000 cc bikes and buy a 125 at this rate

[Willopotomas]

May has well sell the 1000 cc bikes and buy a 125 at this rate

That is exactly what they want us to do.

[T.C.]

Having spent many years working the Motorways and having dealt with numerous fatalities on the Motorway, I have to say that the 50 limit is about right, particularly when there are workmen on the carriageway.

The limit is set to allow for most eventualities, in particular those who ignore every speed limit with or without restrictions, and where their continuous disregard for the limits puts others at risk.

I have seen the vortex created by vehicles travelling at speed suck those standing on the hard shoulder into the main carriageway and then get hit and killed. It does not happen at 50.

So whilst it may seem ridiculously slow, the 50 limit is there for a reason, not just what you can see, but also what you may not see further down the road or what is happening off the carriageway, and also remember that where there are major roadworks, the width of the lanes have been reduced and quite often there may also be a contra flow.

You have to remember that the limits are not there for your benefit, they are there for the benefit of the work force in the carriageway, and having seen the benefits and having saved me from having to make numerous trips down to the Mortuary, sorry, I cannot agree with the OP observations.

That having been said, once the work force are off the carriageway, that is a different matter.

[blinkey501]

Having spent many years working the Motorways and having dealt with numerous fatalities on the Motorway, I have to say that the 50 limit is about right, particularly when there are workmen on the carriageway.

The limit is set to allow for most eventualities, in particular those who ignore every speed limit with or without restrictions, and where their continuous disregard for the limits puts others at risk.

I have seen the vortex created by vehicles travelling at speed suck those standing on the hard shoulder into the main carriageway and then get hit and killed. It does not happen at 50.

So whilst it may seem ridiculously slow, the 50 limit is there for a reason, not just what you can see, but also what you may not see further down the road or what is happening off the carriageway.

So, sorry, cannot agree with the OP comments, 50's are there for good reason and saves my former colleagues masses of paperwork, and families grief.

TC can i just say anyone who has to go to an RTC has my sympathy. My mate was a retained fireman for a while and the first one he went to was involving children.
He did'nt say too much but i know it affected him.
My point was'nt about workers on hard shoulders. And i understand about motorway restrictions protecting the workers, I work for Tarmac.
My point is when there is a black spot the camera's cover a long stretch before and after.
My other point is 60 MPH leading up to the 50 MPH black spot could be set at 60 and time and distance could record this.
I also know has i posted in my origional post that there is a certain element that "Takes the piss" by driving way too fast!!!
The roads have been 60 for a lot of years and could still be if the camera squad accept that majority not all of accidents have been caused by people doing well over 60.
I am all for road safety i really am but i think the 50 limit in some not all cases is excessive

[T.C.]

My point is when there is a black spot the camera's cover a long stretch before and after.
My other point is 60 MPH leading up to the 50 MPH black spot could be set at 60 and time and distance could record this.

There is no black spot as such because average speed cameras are used where time over distance is measured.

This means that vehicles do not have to sit bang on 50, they could do 55 with the odd spurt at 60 but the average would still remain around the 50 mark.

The only time there may be a black spot is where fixed cameras are used, but these are becoming less frequently used as average speed cameras cause less panic and can cover the whole stretch of the section of roadworks.

The system currently employed actually works very well. It is usually the frustrated, impatient or bad drivers and riders that take issue and complain

[blinkey501]

My point is when there is a black spot the camera's cover a long stretch before and after.
My other point is 60 MPH leading up to the 50 MPH black spot could be set at 60 and time and distance could record this.

The system currently employed actually works very well. It is usually the frustrated, impatient or bad drivers and riders that take issue and complain

Or one of the above.

[HowardQ]

The point is Jay that the "Cash Generators" have to be placed correctly in order to have a chance of bringing in a good return.
As you have noted, they install them in the few areas where people can safely overtake, when they have been stuck in heavy traffic.
As you pointed out, the one at Gringley is on the dual carriageway section not the single track road where overtaking might be dangerous, as most motorists no longer try in this area, (so not much money to be made).

Another example is a few miles back down the same road after you leave Bawtry, as soon as you get to the dual carriageway you get SPECS cameras, which stop as soon as it goes back to single again. (again rub your hands Safety Camera Partnership).

And again after Gringley towards Gainsborough the next dual carriageway we get the same set up.
However the best example near us is the A619 "Killer" Stocksbridge Bypass.
On every climb they have created two up, one down lanes so that people can pass the slow lorries so common on this road.
Sadly most lorries stay pretty close to the limit so there are SPECS cameras on every two lane climb to catch the "sinners" who try to get past them and sneak above the average speed to do so.

I would be very happy if there were SPECS cameras outside every scool set bang on 30m mph or slower at school times, but have never seen one and never will, because most drivers would accept this quickly and the revenue would drop to nothing.
You can't just leave expensive cameras there as a deterent, what a waste of public money!

As for motorways, with the workers in the road, I agree with TC, they again should be there and people deserve to get nickedif they break the limit, especially all the lorry drivers who try and push you over 50, if you dare to slow down.

I do still get a little bit pissed off when all the many thousands of workers are red and white with pointy heads with not a human or piece of road equipment in sight.

[T.C.]

Much of the problem with speed cameras has arisen since the requirement to consult the Police was dropped a number of years ago and local councils were allowed to place them wherever they wish.

Back in the day, the local authority had to consult the Police and put a good case forward for justifying their installation just as the Police had to put a case forward if there was a location that they wanted a camera placed.

When the local authority made their case, the Police Traffic management unit would look at the 85 percentile for that road, look at enforcement issues and look at the accident rate for that road to see whether there was any justification. This meant that cameras were placed where they would be most effective.

When the need to consult was withdrawn it gave the local authorities cart blanch to put them where they could make the most revenue and looked at it from as you point out a revenue making scheme instead of a road safety scheme.

A good example is a local Councillor wanted a camera outside his house. There was no justification for it as there were no issues and the camera price of (at the time £17,500) could have been better spent elsewhere.

My Sgt and I went to the meeting because we wanted a camera at a particular spot but this Councillor would not agree until we agreed to agree to the camera he wanted.

So reluctantly my Sgt agreed to his demands.

As we left, Barry (my Sgt) said, he may write the cheques, but I decide which cameras are loaded with film. From that day to this, the camera outside this plonkers house has never ever had any film in it, whilst the one we were after made a dramatic difference to road safety at that location and for the better.

If the need to consult was re-introduced, many of the current cameras could be withdrawn, although these days by virtue of the fact they are digital rather than requiring someone to physically load them with film, I don't see it happening.

But the short of it is the local authorities have a lot to answer for because it is them that have brought the system into disrepute, most of the decisions are made by unqualified people (and I include degree holding traffic engineers in that comment) and until the whole system is reviewed, nothing will change.

[HowardQ]

Totally agree!

[HowardQ]

Then again, having spent 43 years as a Local Goverment Officer, times have changed.
Local Authorities are forced to make money any way they can to counteract the savage Goverment cuts and sadly much of this is aimed at motorists for speeding and parking offences.
The people in these areas have to change into evil robots or they are sacked.
It is strange, whilst still working there, I used to know many of the car park/traffic wardens well as they were next door to us on our floor, but out on the job you would say hello and they would look straight through you, they really became robots.
They seemed to love the chance to book the women 2 or 3 minutes late when the ticket had expired, when they were struggling with a couple of kids and loads of shopping. Old age pensioners were even easier prey.

We had a facility to book car parks in advance via Internet and they booked me SIX times for not displaying a ticket as they never checked if I had pre-paid.
Had to jump the bloody hoops to get the money back!
Glad I am now retired!

[fatboy]

T C, as the consultation process re the siiting of cash cameras has been binned, does this affect your right to challenge photo evidence with regard to the legality of the siting of the cash generating thing ?