Dr Rossi / Gabro / Forza Aprilia Falco chip

[Kwackerz]

Judging from the previous reports that seem well written and explained, pretty meticulous in the layout, to the latter that seems much more garbled, I assume the power comes in in a thick fast surge, stopping the earth spinning on it's axis and turning it in reverse and then propelling you along at warp speed.. turning the humble falco into a somewhat orgasmatron machine

I may just have to watch this thread closely. I knew the Gabro eprom chips were good but this sounds very interesting when compared to the others.

[MartDude]

J the latter that seems much more garbled,

You've not met Geoff, have you?

[Aladinsaneuk]

I have only ever heard positive things about the gabro chips

I have had several email chats with gabro and found him knowledgeable

If I did not run the full renegade system as I do, I would have a gabro

[Kwackerz]

Better than that.. thing.. I spoke to by email from Germany? (I fired one of the ebay specials an email enquiring about specific set ups and the reply was completely pathetic at first glance) I think das Büro cat had replied. The response reminded me of Dr Nick off the Simpsons. having said that they were uber worried about chips from them being replicated to the point of serialising their chips electronically with the bike's vin so they could check random chips on the marketplace for copying.. I've seen Jorge when he was replying to some people and he could come across as a bit like Dr Nick, but those who know his work know how damn good he was. Hmm.. tempted to buy one just to decipher it and see just what it is.. I know we both hold the same opinion from the email but... I think i'd send it to gabro to compare it and see if it shows what map it mightve been..

I'm still toying with the Renegade chip at the moment. I'm positive they were single map chips but that was on the + chips.. never saw the lettered chips (C) so there may be a hidden map if small miracles happen.. (more chance of Ipswich gaining promotion)

Back to Gabro, He is definately seems to be the leading Eprom geek at present and has been for a good while.

[flatlander]

J the latter that seems much more garbled,

You've not met Geoff, have you?

ROFLMAO

I will tidy up shortly that's just a quick first impression
Summary is not my bag man

And Tim I only got as far as the first couple of lines in your reply before the phrase the calling pot kettle black the phrase kept getting jumbled around my head

[flatlander]

So just for Timbo

Install was probably the easiest of the lot especially as it was done late last night good fit of chip not as robust feeling as FA but better than Rossi. Reminder that the Rossi and the Gabro have both come second hand

So after running to fumes on the last run with the FA at just over 140 miles and a little over 18 litres going in time to set off

I had already been caught a little by surprise by the urgent start before I remembered I had changed the chips again.

First run past the airfield and everything feeling really urgent again it is well written but feels like its constantly in hurry up mode. Felt like I hard to use the extra gear whereas the others have not given me that sensation and have been tolerable in 3rd and 4th. It did feel like it got there quick but then the speedo suggested it hadn't

So off we go to a mixed a road and mway run. It wasn't meant to be it was meant to be all M way, but I genuinely got to the point where I thought I am going to lose my licence if I don't get off.

That's how I found that low down it seemed quite reasonable and very ok around villages. Maybe a little prone to making you check the choke but very civilised, surprisingly so to be fair.
A roads open wide bends again all the power you want is there and the main area it seems to be ahead of the others is in the throttle response. It is pretty damned instant.

Now remember I have talked all along about the character, the subjective feel of these chips and that's what I am doing again. I ain't saying I'm right I ain't saying its technically possible I'm just saying its how it felt.

So today... Weather was unseasonably warm and kind I was tired and a bit out of sorts just the sort of state where normally my ride in makes me realise that work is just somewhere to go for coffee and cake between blasts on the bike. Not today though.

Today I arrived somewhat harassed and feeling like I've gone at speeds far in excess of where I would normally be happy. Maybe I'm just grumpy ill see how it goes tonight, and I did now tonight is all M way really once I've left the city. It often like tonight is pretty much all filtering with clear breaks and sorry but it just wasn't that much fun. Don't get me wrong I love filtering absolutely love it but with this chip in just like this morning I ended up going slower overall than even with a standard chip. It just isn't comfortable, you get onto certain bands and it demands to go quicker and only really seems to relax at higher revs and faster relative speeds. It just starts to feel like it requires too much focus and becomes hard work. You (I) start to get the feeling that you just want to get home and get off. Preferably before white finger sets in or bits start falling off

So to use a shorter analogy ( obviously for Tim ;) ) remember I may change my view if the thing grows on me with the miles but for now ...

Would I be happy using a Rossi chip

Yes it's the one that has put the biggest smile on my face and that was with a toothless sprocket and a slack chain
Verdict - for Sunday blasts with mates makes you feel like you've just had a pint by the river and are on your way home and all with a big grin whilst laughing about how much you love your bike

FA didn't want to like it still don't want to because its by far and away the sensible choice. That said if you just open the choke very slightly it becomes a lot more aggressive. Used more fuel than the Rossii

Verdict - for Everyday if you commute or ride regular mikes the best compromise of the three still sharp enough to enjoy but also comfortable enough to enjoy the view even at the same speeds as the others. Far more progressive response

Gabro don't like it far too demanding its line feeding a crack habit. You give in and open up just to get the thing to leave you alone and get rid of the withdrawal. Very much more sports orientated and exacting. Really pulls more than the others higher up but no actual increase in top speeds
Verdict - for track day or short mental blasts on open roads

[D-Rider]

Hmmm - I recognise most of the words but few of them in that order !

Reminder that the Rossi and the Gabro have both come second hand

Dunno about the Dr Rossi but Gabro makes chips targeted at the config of your bike and the characteristics you desire - so it's entirely possible that a 2nd hand chip may not be optimal for your bike or your expectations. Not saying this is the case but it's possible.
Also I've never tried any of these chips myself

That said if you just open the choke very slightly it becomes a lot more aggressive.

Makes no sense - the Falco (and Mille/Tuono) do not have a choke. They have a fast idle control but all this does is pushes the throttle stop up a bit so it doesn't die when it's cold. Any richening of the mixture is done by the ECU but is not related to the fast idle lever position - it just doesn't let you twist the throttle back to it's normal position. There is no way it will affect the "aggressive" nature of the performance characteristic.

[Kwackerz]

Ah but D-R..

I ain't saying I'm right I ain't saying its technically possible I'm just saying its how it felt.

I can imagine the 'choke' would bring it up a tad so rather than waiting for the bike to pull up thru the lower rev burble, it's already closer to the smiley happy revs.. if compared against the other chips, they may not deal with the low rev burbling as well as the FA.. also the 5k dip may be more pronounced with them as they dont quite clear it up as well as the FA (all of this in relation to the kit fitted to the bike in question) so it's acceptible to take the perception that it is more aggressive (earlier on in the rev range) when knocking the fast idle (choke) on a bit compared to Mr Rossi and Mr Gabro

Anyhoo.. We will just take it as read that everyone should have a Gabro somewhere in their arsenal.. and a FA and a Rossi.. not forgetting a Renegade +2..

VOTE GABRO [x]

Maybe we should send Stig that chip I passed to Alad.. See how that fares IRL compared to known brand chips

[flatlander]

Anyhoo.. We will just take it as read that everyone should have a Gabro somewhere in their arsenal.. and a FA and a Rossi.. not forgetting a Renegade +2..

That kind of is the essential point. All three have very different characters but all 3 are completely better than no chip or standard chip.

[D-Rider]

That kind of is the essential point. All three have very different characters but all 3 are completely better than no chip or standard chip.

Can't agree more - those running no chip are probably those who have been posting up about not being able to start their bikes.

Why did I forget to tell them to check that they have a chip in their ecu Doh!

[flatlander]

ok so I decided to persevere with the Gabro to give it the same time as the others and it has actually grown on me a bit. I find that if I slightly over gear it is more useful and makes it logically a lot less revvy and vibey and bringsit more into the territory where the FA had been firmly sat. However witht he faster throttle response it does seem to the liven up a bit more sharply.

I still have doubts about it as a long term commuters chip but as a leisure chip it is starting to make more sense. I still maintain that it is less forgiving than the other two and requires far more focus. It is odd though how if you use what you feel is the appropriate gear it so dynamically changes the nature of it and I am not sure I would welcome having to be quite so attentive to the speedo as whatever speed you think you are doing you need to add at least 10 whereas the others you tended to be more accurate on the sensation of speed.

[Cathcart]

Alot of useful information here, actually put in terms that we all feel rather than in technical terms.

Appreciate the effort you've went to.

[flatlander]

Not sure if I've mentioned before but I think unless you are telly well in with the guys who wrote the maps you will pretty much get an approximation to your particular setup hence they tend to be setup as open airbox and open cans. I would suggest that say where Pete has a renegade chip with rene kit that may be a bit more specific and there may be some gains to be had across some if the areas discussed.

In my honest opinion whichever of these three chips will give you something worth having for your money and I'd be happy with any of them. So the £64.59 question which one(s) am I keeping ?

Well the FA for definite, the small nighles that you could try to find over say the Gabro are for me well worth the trade off against the hurried feeling the gabro seems to give. I also felt more comfortable with the rate of engine braking and to be honest it felt like it sounded louder.

Now I would definitely keep a second chip and for that I would use one of the other two. I would decide which by deciding what kind of miles and style I felt reflected my leisure use. In my case I think I would go with the Rossi as it was like being on a V twin version of a naked bandit which I just can't see as a bad thing

I think also on deciding that I have to recognise that I am a raggedy arsed rider prone to doing dumb shit and that just doesn't feel like it suits the Gabro. Now if you like to ride on a more sports style and focus on your line and everything is nice and tight steering sharp etc the Gabro is going to be the one. Of the 3 as I said earlier it is clearly the most focussed and the obvious choice for a track day tool


But thems just my opinions and worth just what you paid me for them.

Now anyone for a renegade v streetfighter chip add on ?

[D-Rider]

Not sure if I've mentioned before but I think unless you are telly well in with the guys who wrote the maps you will pretty much get an approximation to your particular setup hence they tend to be setup as open airbox and open cans.

Absolutely - though I know that Gabro will do a map suited to your set up - though that still is just an approximation - just maybe a bit closer than some of the others.

Probably the closest you'll get to a match for your bike is to take one of these chips with a revised ignition map and use it with a PCIII custom mapped for your bike and the chip that you've set it up to work with. This will be spot-on (for the day that you've done the map - with the prevailing air pressures, temperatures etc)

... and it is possible to then do away with the PCIII .... and the chip .... as there is a spreadsheet about that allows you to take the custom map from the PCIII and combine it with the maps from the chip you used and then program another chip.
Ages ago I posted about this - I wonder whether I can find the link?

EDIT: I found the thread where I mentioned this but I'd not linked to the details about it (just that it existed) Doh! ..... however, with a bit of a search I found the details on AF1 ... here's a link

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... e-your-PC3!

I also found an old post that compared a Renegade chip in conjunction with a PCIII map with a Gabro chip in conjunction with a PCIII map - the Gabro won ..... and the PCIII map used with the Gabro wasn't set up for that combo - presumably there was more to come! Guess this indicates the Gabro ignition maps make a bigger improvement than the Renegade ignition maps.

I dont know how much my experience may help but I have curves for A Tuono (Tuoldo) that has gone from renegade chip to +PCIII to Gabro +PCIII.

This Tuono has a renegade 2 into 2 exhaust and a Renegade air box mod. I bought it with what was claimed to be a renegade chip. All I can say for the chip isthat it is not the standard and is a plain chip with +2 marked on it in black marker.

I added the PCIII at about 22,000 miles to smooth out the throttle response when winding on. This was achieved with a significant increase in MPG adding 10 miles to the warning light range (95 t 105) plus some extra power in the 7-8.5K rev range. The "smoothing" was successfull or felt to be. see below for the curves.



After a few words with Gabro on AF1 I had one his chips (V5 i think) put in in December ( I had added another 8k in miles over the year). The PCIII was left in and hardly touched as far as I can tell so the fuel mapping is still PCIII driven. Any change is soley down to Gabros igniton timing mapping. Gabro had had no experience with the renegade chip and so could not make any comment as to what change I should expect. The curves show a further increase in power. The fuel consumption (as one may expect) seems unchanged. The Tuono is now far freindlier in the very low rev range which has helped in town traffic and lazy touring (too idle to shift down some times). This is borne out by the curves.

The comparible power curves could be missleading. The old curve is taken from when the PCIII was put in 8000 miles before. The new curve is on a day with an increase of nearly 3% atmospheric pressure and a significant reduction in humidity despite a higher ambient temperature. However whilst there was a little more air to breath on the latter curve there was the added restriction of baffles IN. I feel like I have little more grunt in the mid range. The other noticable effect is that my exhaust system seems to running hotter than before. To me this is strange as I would normally associate this with a leaner mixture setting. I have asked for the fuel map but todate have not had the curve to see what has been actually done in this respect. As stated above i think the fuel map is very much unchanged.



Both retain a nice flat Torque curve which is highly appreciated.

[Aladinsaneuk]

perhaps try the search facility?