Q's - Rider/Static sag issue & checking oil level

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TwinNut · #1 Post by **TwinNut** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:31 pm

Rider/Static Sag
Just before my first ride of the year I thought I'd re-check the sag front and rear. I did this last year and the front was always tricky to get right but i put it down to have Gilles Variobars fitted (bar risers) and thus not as much weight was being placed on the front. This time round I'm still getting weird results. From what I understand the rider sag at the front should be 35-50 mm but no matter where I set the fork preloads to the sag always measures approx. 10mm - what is going on here?? No matter whether there's 1 ring of five showing the measurement is still the same, give or take a few mills. I've had the forks re-valved with Ohlins springs, at least that's what they told me they did...

Oil Level
Never been really sure what the correct jump-through-15-hoops-stand-on-one-leg (or is that the Mason's?) method of checking the oil level is. Checked back on the old site and there were numerous methods offered by various punters - can someone tell me what the correct and definitive method of checking the oil level is?

#2 Post by **Kwackerz** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:45 pm

Are you doing this on a rear stand or with you holding the bike upright on one foot? Either will affect the readings. Ideally someone holding the bike so you are 100% on the bike(both feet) with the bike is in it's normal resting position on the road surface.
Are you using a cable tie round the fork leg, or a ruler to measure?
35-40 sounds about right 35 headed more to trackday riding, more sag for roadriding
If you've had the forks revalved and different weight springs put in, then this will affect the readings and settings, also whether theyre progressive springs or not and how progressive!

As for the oil? I'll leave that to the falconeers!

TwinNut · #3 Post by **TwinNut** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:57 pm

Kwackerz wrote:Are you using a cable tie round the fork leg, or a ruler to measure?

Tried both with approx. the same result. How many rings does everyone have showing? I know it differs from bike to bike it'll give me an idea as I've had mine like this for a while and the front has never been 100%.....

Goldie · #4 Post by **Goldie** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:04 pm

Hi TN,

What static sag do you have at the front? Are you sure you're measuring the right thing? If rider sag is only 10mm the forks must be about fully extended when you're off it.

Read F9's Ohlins Setup instructions here which is a good guide for measuring and what you should be aiming for.

...and yes, oil level is voodoo.

I've pretty much given up on a reliable reading; IMHO if you consistently see some oil in the tube with engine stopped then it's OK; if you usually don't then add some. Not very scientific, is it???

...and I can't help with number of rings showing; Marzocchis (sp?) don't have them!

Gio · #5 Post by **Gio** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:08 pm

Goldie wrote:and I can't help with number of rings showing; Marzocchis (sp?) don't have them!

So what is showing in MM then

On my Blackbird there were no rings (excluding the clip one) Mine were at 10mm above the top yoke.

Goldie · #6 Post by **Goldie** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:18 pm

Gio wrote:So what is showing in MM then

Nothing. Preload on the Marzocchis is not the same as the Showas, you turn the nut but it only moves the internal gubbins; nothing visible changes. We're not talking about the ride-height rings on the top of the fork stanchions.

You're not a Falco expert yet Gio.

Gio · #7 Post by **Gio** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:21 pm

Goldie wrote:
Gio wrote:So what is showing in MM then
Nothing. Preload on the Marzocchis is not the same as the Showas, you turn the nut but it only moves the internal gubbins; nothing visible changes. We're not talking about the ride-height rings on the top of the fork stanchions.

You're not a Falco expert yet Gio.

I doubt I ever will be

So what can you tell me about Marzocchis?

Goldie · #8 Post by **Goldie** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:31 pm

Gio wrote:So what can you tell me about Marzocchis?

Aprilia switched from Showa to Marzocchi forks sometime in 2003 (-ish). They don't have the little "top-hats" on the top that show you the preload setting, the stanchions are gold (anodised), and they have red cap nuts. ...and they don't have a drain plug

(do Showas?).

So I can't tell you anything useful.

No idea if they are better or worse, don't know of anyone that's done a comparison, and not heard of anyone getting them re-valved or re-sprung (anyone???).

#9 Post by **Kwackerz** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:34 pm

If you stick Black Aprilia RiderSite stickers on Marzocchi forks, they perform better....

Do carry on.. just plugging the latest competition in general aprilia.

But you never know. I could be right...?

Gio · #10 Post by **Gio** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:35 pm

Goldie wrote:
Gio wrote:So what can you tell me about Marzocchis?
Aprilia switched from Showa to Marzocchi forks sometime in 2003 (-ish). They don't have the little "top-hats" on the top that show you the preload setting, the stanchions are gold (anodised), and they have red cap nuts. ...and they don't have a drain plug (do Showas?).

So I can't tell you anything useful.

No idea if they are better or worse, don't know of anyone that's done a comparison, and not heard of anyone getting them re-valved or re-sprung (anyone???).

Sounds as useful as a broken coat hanger, thanks for the reply anyway.

Goldie · #11 Post by **Goldie** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:00 pm

Gio wrote:Sounds as useful as a broken coat hanger, thanks for the reply anyway.

Well you did ask.

Goldie · #12 Post by **Goldie** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:02 pm

Shit, just noticed... I've been promoted!

Gio · #13 Post by **Gio** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:02 pm

Goldie wrote:
Gio wrote:Sounds as useful as a broken coat hanger, thanks for the reply anyway.
Well you did ask.

Thumper · #14 Post by **Thumper** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:44 pm

TwinNut wrote:Rider/Static Sag
Just before my first ride of the year I thought I'd re-check the sag front and rear. I did this last year and the front was always tricky to get right but i put it down to have Gilles Variobars fitted (bar risers) and thus not as much weight was being placed on the front. This time round I'm still getting weird results. From what I understand the rider sag at the front should be 35-50 mm but no matter where I set the fork preloads to the sag always measures approx. 10mm - what is going on here?? No matter whether there's 1 ring of five showing the measurement is still the same, give or take a few mills. I've had the forks re-valved with Ohlins springs, at least that's what they told me they did...

Oil Level
Never been really sure what the correct jump-through-15-hoops-stand-on-one-leg (or is that the Mason's?) method of checking the oil level is. Checked back on the old site and there were numerous methods offered by various punters - can someone tell me what the correct and definitive method of checking the oil level is?

It sounds as if you are on the light side TwiNut are you? anyhow 10mm rider sag says your springs are way to stiff for you.
Do you know the fork oil viscosity is it 05w or 10w it all makes a difference as does the level of the oil in the fork. Personally I don't like measuring the oil level method on the falco so I left them to drain overnight and filled each leg with exactly the same amount of oil in each leg.
I used 5w synthetic fork oil and 480ml of oil, my fork settings are standard except I have one ring extra pre-load.
As for the one leg thing you have to be on the square for that.

Goldie · #15 Post by **Goldie** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:01 pm

I don't think oil viscosity should affect sag, but the oil level certainly could. More oil = less capacity for compression.

Rider sag is the difference between fork length fully extended (i.e. wheel off the ground) and length with the rider mounted, isn't it? ...or am I talking complete bollocks (again)

. I can't help thinking TN's 10mm is actually the difference between static & rider sag. Apologies TN if I'm way off base!!!

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Q's - Rider/Static sag issue & checking oil level

Q's - Rider/Static sag issue & checking oil level

Re: Q's - Rider/Static sag issue & checking oil level