When is a dual carriageway not a dual carriageway?

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BikerGran · #1 Post by **BikerGran** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:06 pm

Sorry to labour this point but I'm a bit concerned as it makes a difference to the speed limit.

http://www.commercialmotor.com/latest-n ... arriageway

The article is rather old (April 2009) but it says

the definition of a dual carriageway is quite clear in the Road Traffic Act 1984

Has this now been suoperceded?

Willopotomas · #2 Post by **Willopotomas** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:22 pm

To be honest, I thought unless it was stated as such or had a central reservation it wasn't a duel carriage way. The way I see it, those without being told otherwise or without a CR are overtaking lanes and should be treated as a normal two way road.

If in doubt continue at a safe speed until you know otherwise. When a speed limit changes there'll be a large sign either side of the road.. If one of those signs is missing and you get caught, you can appeal it as you may have been unaware of the change. I remember reading about that a few years ago in one of the bike mags.

If you're already the national limit zone which changes from 60 to 70 for duel carriage ways, stick to 60 if you're not 100% sure.

Samray · #3 Post by **Samray** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:48 pm

That article looks to be a loada blox on many counts.
Dual carriageways were seldom built with central barriers originally, and not all have been upgraded.
Dual carriageway limit in a built up area is 30 unless signed otherwise.
Central barriers don't exist where there is a right turn junction.

Aladinsaneuk · #4 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:51 pm

i think a dual carriageway is one marked by a road sign as a dual carriageway.....

same was as we have some dual carriageways with three lanes - they are not a motorway but.....

i think that makes sense

D-Rider · #5 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:56 pm

In my understanding, a dual carriageway is a road with 2 separate carriageways (one for each direction) - ie divided by a barrier (not necessarily a crash barrier).

This has nothing to do with the number of lanes. A single carriageway may have one lane running each way, or two or more running each way. The Aston Expressway varies the number running each way depending on the time of day.

A dual carriageway normally has more than one lane per carriageway - but it doesn't have to.

Nooj · #6 Post by **Nooj** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:13 am

Yep, if there is no central reservation it is NOT a dual carriageway, and carries the national limit (60mph) unless otherwise indicated on signs.

flatlander · #7 Post by **flatlander** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:53 am

Ccording to the mice gentleman on my recent speed awareness course if you can roll a ball from one side to the other it ain't a dual carriageway if you can see small repeater signs on say posts then it is unlikely to be a 30 as that should be taken for granted and therefore doesn't require a sign. Other than that there should be clear signage

D-Rider · #8 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:00 am

Are you now aware of speed?

flatlander · #9 Post by **flatlander** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:06 am

funnily enough I did point out to them that I obviously knew about speed or I wouldn't have been there

and to be honest I was quitely chuffed to have gone at that speed on that road as it meant I must have been going like Carlos Sainz in his pomp. In other words no way I could really have been averaging that ... which was another point I questioned if that was the average speed limit then they accepted that I could go over it at some point just not for too long and someone had to go over it for longer to make up the average...

TC · #10 Post by TC » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:12 pm

I should have qualified my answer in my response to the comment BG posted on another subject.

To be clasified a dual carriageway, there has to be at least 4 lanes, 2 in each direction, but does not have to have a central barrier, but there does have to be a physical barrier between the carriageways, whether that is a grass central reserve, a crash barrier or simply a line of bushes, that is sufficient.

The speed limit will be 70 as per a Motorway unless otherwise stated, and so if you enter a multi lane carriageway and see GLF boards and the signs are white on green, and there is some form of physical central divide, then it will be a dual carriageway.

If it is simply opposing lanes of 2 lanes in each direction, then it remains an A class road and the 60 limit still applies.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

D-Rider · #11 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:21 pm

So one lane in each direction separated by a central reservation ... what is that then?

OK there can't be many that were built like that but some have been "converted" into that at least in stretches by painting hatches over one of the lanes.

I always thought that was still a dual carriageway as there are two distinct carriageways.
I guess that such configurations almost always have posted speed signs as they will never be 70mph stretches.

paddyz1 · #12 Post by **paddyz1** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:59 pm

I know that stretch as i use it fairly often. It is clearly signed for 60mph and has speed camera's too.
The guy in question should have known that as he is a HGV driver and 'should' have better training than the average road user.
I suspect he is just trying to get away with it.
I have no sympathy for HGV drivers these days as most of them are twats (nothing like they were when i first started driving)

TC · #13 Post by TC » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:09 pm

D-Rider wrote:So one lane in each direction separated by a central reservation ... what is that then?

A central reservation is regarded as anything that provides a physical presence between the opposing carriageways, for example a central barrier as you get on a Motorway, or for those of you that know the A3290 in Reading, a central grass reserve which has only recently been upgraded to a full barrier.

Where there is only a painted line (often called dead mans lane) this is not a dual carriageway and the 60 limit will apply.

D-Rider · #14 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:48 pm

Indeed .... but as I said, what if it has a central reservation but only one lane in each of the opposing carriageways?

(Also, stretches of the M5 and M40 used to have central grassy areas without crash barriers in years gone by)

TC · #15 Post by TC » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:55 pm

D-Rider wrote:Indeed .... but as I said, what if it has a central reservation but only one lane in each of the opposing carriageways?

(Also, stretches of the M5 and M40 used to have central grassy areas without crash barriers in years gone by)

Single carriageway with one lane in each direction is not a dual carriageway, regardless of whether there is a central reservation or barrier or otherwise.

It has to be multiple lanes in both directions