Falco Gearbox Gone West

Message

NorvernFalco · #1 Post by **NorvernFalco** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:09 pm

I thought I'd gather the wisdom of this site to see if my issue has been seen before.

Late last year I bought myslef a winter bargain, one 2004 Falco low mileage, got the bike home and tucked her up in the garage. Time rolls on and she went for a service today (Rocket Centre, Blackburn, Lancs). Got a call asking me to come and see the bike later on.

The guy servicing the bike dropped the oil only to find lots of little bits of what he thinks are gears. He fished around with his magnetic prodder and gathered the bits up into a bowl, quite a few bits I saw to my horror.

I'm now being quoted North of a thousand quid to have the engine out and split and fixed.....

He said it's the first time he's seen this (very comforting).

Anyone had issues with gears shearing. I'm stuck with a big bill or doing something I don't want to do, taking the bike back and farming round cheaper garages for a cheaper repair. I can't take it back and bung it on Fleabay and palm it off onto someone else, my guilty mind won't let me.

Could buy another second hand engine but again, what state would that be ?

Any views, pointers gratefully received.... oh dear, not a good day.

Dead unhappy as the reason I went for a Falco was the reputation of the engine having been a VFR man before, 7 years of trouble free biking on the VFR.

Falco9 · #2 Post by **Falco9** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:01 pm

I think I'll be speaking for a lot (if not all) of us on here when I say this is the first time I've ever heard of a gearbox problem as per your description

Is the motor making any unusual noises? difficulty in selecting or holding on to any gears(s)? Do the bits look like gearbox teeth and what was the mechanics opinion??

Normally the only weak spot on these motors is the sprag clutch letting go (it couldn't be any teeth from the sprag gear could it???) I've never heard of any gearbox problems

Personally I wouldn't have any hesitation in looking for a complete motor and doing a straight swap. These engines can be picked up complete for a whole lot less that £1k you're being quoted for the repair

My Falco is an 04 model and like you I picked it up as a winter bargain, although I did swap the oil myself and it was clean (thank god!!)

Please keep us informed as to what solution you go for and if the source of the bits is ever found

F9

anzacinexile · #3 Post by **anzacinexile** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:15 pm

Every time someone's spotted pieces of metal in their oil it turned out to be the clutch release bearing - nothing more.

I've never heard of a Rotax motor eating its gearbox

#4 Post by **Kwackerz** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:52 pm

A. Phone Griff at Aprilia Performance

B. Phone Don Plane at Southern Cross

Both are quality guys and may be able to source you a cheap secondhand engine with yours as part ex.
Don knows a fair few of the racers (being one himself) and may have a contact for someone with a spare Mille / Falco lump.

If you speak to them mention the Site

Both are listed here: https://www.ridersite.com/viewtopic.php?t=736

D-Rider · #5 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:08 pm

As others have said, I've never heard of one eating its gearbox .... Anzac is probably right as to the cause.

Second hand rotax lumps are cheap - much cheaper than you've been quoted for the strip and rebuild - but if someone else is going to swap it over for you, that would add to the cost.

Probably best talking it over with Griff (or Don - though I don't know him myself) - he'll be happy to help you find the best way through this.

NorvernFalco · #6 Post by **NorvernFalco** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:54 am

Well things move on and thanks for all the replies on my issue. Garage is doing some more investigation, I managed to dig out the last service report and Lo ! The last service place (who went bust and lost all the service records I found out), did look at the starter clutch. Perhaps the issue lies there. The report said they re tensioned the spring to the starter clutch, perhaps a bit too much ?

Anyhow I walked the Rocket Centre guy through the report and he's going have a look at the sprag gear and strip it down more to go further. See what he finds.

The bits of metal I saw did seem to be machined like gear teeth, but very small, hopefully not the full gears then !!! Fingers crossed.

Again thanks for the replies, the final resolution might be a new lump as the bike was spot on and I don''t want to get rid.

Finding gears was a problem when cold (well neutral gear anyhow) and I did report a problem when I took it in.

If you get the bike on a stand and run it up in neutral, no problem, but if you slip it in first and let the clutch out the back wheel duly spun, if you then pulled the clutch back in, there was drive still to the back wheel. I couldn't stop it by putting by foot gently on the back wheel (carefully may I add). If the bike was off the stand on on normal ground and I went through the same sequence, it didn't feel like the bike was trying to take off when the clutch was pulled in if in first or second. But I did mention this to them. Sounds clutchy to me that.......Seen stories of clutch issues on here. Checked on the VFR and it worked as expected, clutch in, no drive. Falco, bit iffy.

More to follow.......

NorvernFalco · #7 Post by **NorvernFalco** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:57 am

Oh the other thing, no funny noises. Even Mr Mechanic said it sounded fine when he rode it into the bay. Other than the Aprilia racing Exhaust making it's usual bark

anzacinexile · #8 Post by **anzacinexile** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:57 am

NorvernFalco wrote:Well things move on and thanks for all the replies on my issue. Garage is doing some more investigation, I managed to dig out the last service report and Lo ! The last service place (who went bust and lost all the service records I found out), did look at the starter clutch. Perhaps the issue lies there. The report said they re tensioned the spring to the starter clutch, perhaps a bit too much ?

Anyhow I walked the Rocket Centre guy through the report and he's going have a look at the sprag gear and strip it down more to go further. See what he finds.

The bits of metal I saw did seem to be machined like gear teeth, but very small, hopefully not the full gears then !!! Fingers crossed.

Again thanks for the replies, the final resolution might be a new lump as the bike was spot on and I don''t want to get rid.

Finding gears was a problem when cold (well neutral gear anyhow) and I did report a problem when I took it in.

If you get the bike on a stand and run it up in neutral, no problem, but if you slip it in first and let the clutch out the back wheel duly spun, if you then pulled the clutch back in, there was drive still to the back wheel. I couldn't stop it by putting by foot gently on the back wheel (carefully may I add). If the bike was off the stand on on normal ground and I went through the same sequence, it didn't feel like the bike was trying to take off when the clutch was pulled in if in first or second. But I did mention this to them. Sounds clutchy to me that.......Seen stories of clutch issues on here. Checked on the VFR and it worked as expected, clutch in, no drive. Falco, bit iffy.

More to follow.......

Aahh - the perfectly normal Falco clutch drag - not an issue or something to be concerned about

Tweaker · #9 Post by **Tweaker** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:03 am

A few thoughts.

1. Highly unlikely to be gearbox given that a) no-one has ever reported a failure and b) it drives OK.
2. trying your clutch test on the stand with a cold engine isn't very conclusive. When the oil is cold, there's a fair bit of drag which will make the rear wheel spin. You say it's OK on the ground, which bears this out. Also, the difficult neutral is fairly common, particularly with a cold engine.
3. No funny noises. A failing sprag makes noise when you start the engine. A failing gearbox would make noise when riding.

If the previous owner has had Sprag problems, maybe the garage didn't change the oil after their work and what you see is the remains of the previous problem?

Just my thought process at work

HowardQ · #10 Post by **HowardQ** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:54 am

Can I just say that I agree with the previous comments, it is probably a legacy from the previous work on the sprag clutch, which should have been sorted at the time with an oil change/flush.
A degree of clutch drag when cold and difficulty selecting neutral on a Falco is a "standard feature" I'm afraid, but things can be done to improve the situation if it annoys you.
In 6 1/2 years ownership I have just got used to it, you can change the clutch oil jet, which improves the situation considerably, but you can consider that later once the current issues are resolved.

Falcoholic · #11 Post by **Falcoholic** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Having knackered the sprag clutch twice now, and had the fly wheel bolts shear and the heads chewed the stator (alternator windings) I can confirm tha the mess in your oil will indeed be attributed to one or both of these issues.

Where are you? I can swap a stator, pop a fly wheel and change a sprag with my eyes closed now.

Strip off the oil tank and wash it out with petrol before filling it again and make sure you check the magnetic oil plug.