more help needed, please ,

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SkinnyPinny · #1 Post by **SkinnyPinny** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:37 pm

well, thanks for the replies before, but some more help needed,
my Falco would'nt start last week, seemed to be sprag,
being the tight git that I am,I did not want to start throwing cash around until I was 100% sure what was wromg,
so ............
I shorted out the starter solenoid, and, it turned over, so I went and got a starter solenoid.
Yamaha 4KD 150amp etc
now that has given my a couple of problems,
the Datatool was connected to the red wire from the old solenoid.
I am unsure whether to get rid of the alarm or keep it,
question 1;
if I remove the alarm, I also have to sort out the wires that go to the engine stop relay located on the rear left hand side,
should the 2 wires ( blue/grey) be connected together ? they are listed as 11 in the wiring diagram "arrangement for the installation of anti theft device"
question 2:
at the moment the alarm is connected to the old relay, but the new relay in wired into the bike, if you see what I mean,
the bike has a spark and petrol, the plugs come out wet, but, it will not start, just cranks over, and the occasional pop from the air box,
any ideas, please,

joecrx · #2 Post by **joecrx** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:56 pm

theres alot more to disconnecting a datatool than just a couple of wires i think , sounds like you have flooded the bike, caus its not fireing , reconnect the datatool wires to the new solinoid as it was originally ,
check the alarm has not went into sleep mode ,

she should fire up

SkinnyPinny · #3 Post by **SkinnyPinny** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:31 pm

right, just got back in from tinkering,
yep, too many wires for me to be comfortable removing alarm,
so, summary time
bike was running, sprag a bit noisy, but running,
bike stopped, not turning over and battery got run down,
put on charge, assumed sprag, but changed starter solenoid first, anyway
after charging battery, now bike turns over, all plugs are sparking and they get wet, so there must be fuel,
alarm sets and resets , dont know how to reset it if its in sleep,
bike will not catch, cleaned plugs, still no go,
tried new plugs, checked injectors, fuel is flowing through pipe,
still wont go, the sprag is flipping noisy, ( could it be slipping ? )
balls

any suggestions, ta, skinnyP

#4 Post by **Kwackerz** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:36 pm

Tried starting without touching the throttle? If it's got fuel, air and a spark, it should go whuumph and fire up, unless it's terribly flooded?

Falcopops · #5 Post by **Falcopops** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:55 am

1st take the new solenoid out and put the old one back in that's attached to the alarm.

Then have a look at this thread and try the links to make sure the alarm is behaving normally.

While you're doing that take the plugs out and to dry and clean them. Irridiums are a bit steep, but well worth it.

Only once you've discounted the alarm you start to look for the root problem.

I'm still keen on a poor battery if you can hook up to a spare or a car.

If the old solenoid is suspect short it with the ignition on to start instead of using the button, you've got a spare so it doesn't matter if you melt the posts a bit.

Let us know what the outcome is.

Falcopops · #6 Post by **Falcopops** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:00 am

I just had a quick scan of the thread I linked to and it was a blown fuse under the seaat by the battery, I suggest you look there 1st, saves buggering around with stuff. Good luck.

SkinnyPinny · #7 Post by **SkinnyPinny** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:02 pm

right, alarm all wired in and alrming, spark plugs in and sparking, fuel in and , er fueling,
still no starting,
so I decided to have a look at the sprag as it sounds terminal and I am convinced its not turning evenly,
everything looks Ok, no bits flying around, BUT...
the gear behind the fly wheel has quite a lot of play,
back and forth, and I can 'twist' it slightly, by pushing on one side,
also, I took out the idler,(the middle gear), turning the big starter gear it sometime goes both ways, clockwise and anti clockwise
then it will lock, as if it would turn the engine.
surely this aint right, ?
any comments,
thanks SkinnyP

anzacinexile · #8 Post by **anzacinexile** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:08 pm

Dont worry about the clutch not locking every time by hand. The rollers like a kick to get them to bite.

Bit worried about the amount of play though. Check the casting bosses that the idler shaft runs in. A few have fractured and yours might be cracked letting the plain bearing go oval a tad.

Also, check the bolts holding the clutch to the flywheel are torqued up - better still. the bolts were upgraded in later models - wouldn't hurt to change them even if everything looks fine

SkinnyPinny · #9 Post by **SkinnyPinny** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:00 am

hi, again,
--spot on --------------
when I looked a little closer, the 3 bolts that are in the fly wheel, were all VERY loose
I assume that is what you are reffering to,
I guess these hold the sprag housing to the back of the fly wheel,

so I think I need to strip it down and have a look, as I took 1 screw out and it is a bit swarfy'

so off to the shop for gasket and puller etc and I will ask if these bolts were upgraded,

I cant find a specific torque for these 3 x M8x16 so i will go with loctite and 25nm
unless anyone advises different
thanks for the help,
SkinnyP

D-Rider · #10 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:51 pm

SkinnyPinny wrote:
I cant find a specific torque for these 3 x M8x16 so i will go with loctite and 25nm
unless anyone advises different
thanks for the help,
SkinnyP

I think you'll find it in the Engine Workshop Manual ..... as with many of these things, downloadable from Martin Poll's wonderful website:

http://www.martinpoll.dk/div_april.htm

anzacinexile · #11 Post by **anzacinexile** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:54 pm

SkinnyPinny wrote:I assume that is what you are reffering to,
I guess these hold the sprag housing to the back of the fly wheel,

Correct

Torque for the M8's is 30Nm (3.0 kgm)