Oh dear, my Falco has problems HELP!

[Olig7475]

Hi guys I have major problems with the Falco, the story goes something like this;

My mate was on the bike and stalled it, tried to restart it and let the starter button go to quickly twice and that was it, dash re-set and nothing when you pressed the starter button. Knowing a little about the battery issues on the Falco I diagnosed a flat battery, luckily we were on a steep hill so I managed to bump it. We carried on our way to our destination (Strathclyde!!!) Next morning went to start it, nothing on the button again, got some jump leads and after 10-15mins on charge from another bike we got it going and rode on up to Ayr, an hour and half or so of good hard riding. Stopped for fuel and went to start it nothing on the starter again tried the jump leads for over an hour and nothing, each time I pressed the starter just nothing no sound nothing. We tried to bump it, couldn't get enough speed up so no joy....in desperation I hit the start again and it fired up first turn....on our way again. A couple of hours later of solid riding we stopped for some lunch, oh dear....that was as far as I got on our Scottish adventure, we tried everything, jump leads, bumping nothing would work. I called in the breakdown service, for over two hours he tried to sort it, he put a meter across the battery and we had 13.8 on it, even so he boosted it with his power pack, nothing on the starter button, he then used his pack to start it off the starter motor and bingo it fired in to life......very happy he proceeded to show us how to do for our onward journey, he shut the engine off and tried to do it again and nothing just turning over and over, no spark at the plugs. He eventually gave up reckoning the alarm immobiliser had somehow immobilised the bike (although the lights still flashed, arming / disarming when you pressed the key fob)

It was a long ride home in the recovery van from Castle Douglas to Nottingham!!!! and now she's dead I'm gutted and have no idea where to start. At first I was convinced it was the battery, but it turns out that there was plenty of power in it, so then I thought starter relay as the start motor is fine, but what is stopping it from firing up though?????

Any guidance, as always is massively welcome, but I fear this one is beyond me and I need to call in the professionals

Cheers all
Oli

[back_marker]

My money would be on the starter relay as well. Everything points to it except that last bit about not firing, but from my experience, if these bikes don't fire up straight away they tend to flood very easily (very simple to overcome, just hold the throttle wide open whilst trying to start).

Easy to check the starter relay, just remove the seat cowl and short across the two terminals on the bottom of the starter relay with a large spanner or similar.

[D-Rider]

When you press the starter button, do you hear the starter relay clicking in?

My guess is you don't.

I'm wondering about one of the interlocks - such as the sidestand switch or tipover switch or the kill switch having failed or (for kill switch) needing cleaning.

Could be the starter relay has failed (though I don't think I've heard of a relay coil failing) or dirty starter button contacts.

It goes without saying, make sure all your connector contacts are clean and secure - both on the low current circuit that activates the relay and in the high current starter motor circuit.

Keep us up to date as you check through these things and it will help us narrow things down.

As for how to check things out, the workshop manual is pretty good (Martin Poll's site if you've not got it http://www.martinpoll.dk/div_april.htm)

If that doesn't cover it then search on here or shout up and we'll help.

[Olig7475]

I got the maual out and started to run through all the checks, sidestand switch OK, tip-over switch OK, emergencey cut off switch OK, relay switch OK etc.... My thoughts turned to what the recovery mechanic said about the alarm, I'm now convinced he could well be right as the bike is totally immobisled, absolutly nothing happens on the pressing the button, no fuel pump prime, nothging. It's never worked properly since I've had it, sounded doesn't work, so I would like to rip it out / by pass it, any thoughts on how I might do this?

Cheers guys

Oli

[Falcopops]

I'm surprised Andu didn't mention this as he posted about it a bit back and it's alerted me to a job I need to do.

Apparently the contact arrangement for the starter button and the horn use the little spring in the switch to pass the current. The contact area of the spring is small and can create a point of high resistance and not pass any current to the relay. Have a look in your switch block.

Mine has been doing the same lately - push the starter and nothing (well I get a click, but that's from an extra relay I wired in to turn off the HID's on startup). I can try repeatedly for ages then suddenly it'll fire up like there's never been a problem.

I've not opened the switch yet, but I'm confident that's where the problem lies.

The complete non start even using a hot wire to the starter I'd put down to fouled plugs, pull and clean or even better fit Irridiums, and I'd say it'll go. Careful with the plug leads and caps. Clean the crap out from around the front pot's front plug before pulling it or it'll all fall in the hole. Make sure that plug's in and tight too. They have been known to work loose, won't do any harm, but the noise will increase your washing load.

HTH

[D-Rider]

Ah yes Dale - Can I plead that was part of my "dirty starter button contacts" comment? (maybe not).

Oli, Which alarm are you using? It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a Datatool alarm giving trouble.

[Olig7475]

It's a Meta alarm system, quite an old one. The recovery mechanic checked out the starter switch, he took it apart and ran the meter accross it, it checked out fine.

Oli

[Olig7475]

Ok so we're getting somewhere with this, it is an alarm fault, somewhere in all the bump / jump starting the immobiliser got screwed up and the disarming sequence now arms it and the arming sequence now disarms it. I've got an auto electrician coming on Friday to rip it all out!!!!!!

Thanks for the ideas this arvo guys, as always very much appreciated.

Oli

[Falcopops]

Can I plead that was part of my "dirty starter button contacts" comment?

OK I'll give you that, I skimmed your post and missed it.

[barking frog]

I had alarm / immobiliser problems as well over the weekend, managed to misplace the
circuit board from the remote somewhere along the 607 between Grantham and Lincoln.

I didn't find this out until the alarm has reset at a fuel stop.

had to kill the alarm with my leatherman multi tool thing.

[Fausto]

I had alarm / immobiliser problems as well over the weekend, managed to misplace the
circuit board from the remote somewhere along the 607 between Grantham and Lincoln.

I didn't find this out until the alarm has reset at a fuel stop.

had to kill the alarm with my leatherman multi tool thing.

I was warned about this happening so always carry my fob thing in my pocket.

[scorpio24v]

Why do people have alarms? It seems to me they are all more trouble than there worth. Both my mates with R1`s have had problems and as these things wires arnt all colour coded, all black on the R1`s for security, you cant bypass them easily its an auto sparky thing, which costs.

If you look at the response car alarms get from anyone, they seem a waste of time, or am i missing something. Needless to say none of my bikes have alarms.

It Maybee that R1`s need alarms for getting insurance Gp 17 and all that, but Falcos are 15, CB1300`s are 13 and CBX`s well who knows, or even cares.

[mangocrazy]

Why do people have alarms? It seems to me they are all more trouble than there worth. Both my mates with R1`s have had problems and as these things wires arnt all colour coded, all black on the R1`s for security, you cant bypass them easily its an auto sparky thing, which costs.

If you look at the response car alarms get from anyone, they seem a waste of time, or am i missing something. Needless to say none of my bikes have alarms.

It Maybee that R1`s need alarms for getting insurance Gp 17 and all that, but Falcos are 15, CB1300`s are 13 and CBX`s well who knows, or even cares.

Seconded. I won't let an alarm anywhere near anything I own. If I hear an alarm going off, it's not a case of 'my God, what poor innocent citizen is being burglarised?' - it's more a case of ' what f***ing dickhead has got a crap alarm?'.

Most of the charging/electrical problem posts on here ultimately seem to centre around alarms. And the prospect of being stranded miles from anywhere due to a malfunctioning alarm/immobiliser would fill me with dread.

[Firestarter]

We only ever hear the bad stories, because the good ones don't get told. I've had an alarm on my Falco for 4 years - it's never caused a problem at all. I don't have charging problems, my battery manages over 3 weeks of non-use before I get a dash reset, and the immobiliser has never cut in at an inappropriate time. The only problem I've ever had was with disarmining it once in the garage - which was my fault, the battery level had dropped so low (about 6 weeks of non-use) that, to conserve power, it would only disarm when the LED flashed, which was every 10 seconds.

If there's a fault with the fob, there's a disarmining procedure using a pin code - I carry the instructions round on a card in my wallet.

Is it worth it? Probably not for in the garage, but if I'm parked up somewhere it gives a little bit more piece-of-mind that someone can't just smash the barrel with a screw-driver and ride off.

[D-Rider]

Agreed.

Bought mine second hand off ebay (careful if you do that as most don't have colour coded wires and the alarm manufacturers will not release any info about fitting them). The wires on mine were labled by the guy that had removed it.

Anyway I fitted it myself and it's been entirely trouble-free (apart from the fact the alarm goes off on very windy days - but I've learned to only let the immobiliser set in those conditions.

Having fitted it myself, if it were to fail, I know how to get round the problem


Very glad I've fitted it.