Any wonder we don't trust the NHS?

[TC]

8 and a bit years ago my daughter became very ill very suddenly. She was 8 at the time an was on the first day of her school holiday. I was concerned and called out the Doctor who refused to come out because in his opinion she had a bug but if I was concerned I could make an appointment for the following day. Despite my protests that I knew my daughter better than anyone and that I was very concerned, he still refused to come out saying I was making a mountain out of a molehill and should not waste his time as he had better things to do

Suffice to say, I lost the plot and gave this so called "Expert" Doctor a piece of my mind and told him exactly what I thought of him which didn't go down too well (Don't confuse me with someone who gives a shit!!!! )

To cut a long story short, 2 hours later having got hr to Hospital, she was diagnosed with both Bacterial and viral menigitis and spent the next 10 days in Hospital

Suffice to say, when the local surgery heard of the diagnosis and then read my letter of complaint, the brown stuff hit the fan, but unfortunately the GP concerned was not dismissed

Anyway, much to the relief of both myself and Mrs TC, daughter made a full recovery (although it took over 6 months) and as she approaches her 17th Birthday she is as fit as a flea

Anyway, last Thursday, Father in Law (who shares his birthday with his Grandaughter ) was feeling unwell for the first time in over 50 years. He is having difficulty breathing so makes an appointment with the Doctor, the same Doctor who I mentioned earlier No choice really as it is part of the same practice.

He arrives, explains in some detail all the symptoms, this Doctor examines his chest, listens to his heart and says "Don't worry, you have a muscle problem, go home take some asprin and you will be fine within the next 24 hours"!

Friday night, Mother in Law phones and says FiL is even worse than before so we decide to get him into Hospital.

Within half an hour he is admitted, within an hour he is told that a lung has collapsed no wonder he felt like crap.

Annoyingly, the lung had been collapsed for about 48 hours so the Hopital wants to know why the local GP has not picked this up and arranged an emergency admittance.

Then today, Hospital confirms diagnosis, he has cancer in that lung no wonder it collapsed.

Plus side is that all the signs are positive in that only one lung is affected, so worst case scenario the lung can be removed but they will try conventional treatments first, so the prognosis is quite good and Father inlaw is quite upbeat and enjoying some good food (whic is not difficult if you knew the Mother in Laws cooking )

But as for this bloody Doctor, I can see another major complaint being made and hopefully this time this class 1 tosspot will get his just deserts!!!!

And people wonder why we don't trust Doctors in this country? I sometimes thinkwe would be better off going to the Vet! Animals can't talk but the Vet always seems to get the diagnosis right and apply the right treatment, more than can be said for some Doctors

[BikerGran]

I have every sympathy TC - same thing happened when my stepdaughters baby had meningitis, he's 20 now but he wouldn't have been if she hadn't ignored what the GP said.

And in my own and my husband's experience, we've learned you have to fight the NHS for the treatment you need - and god help those not strong enough or stroppy enough to fight!

[HowardQ]

A few years ago my best mate woke up in the night with severe chest pains, and being in his fifties his first thought was a heart attack. Ambulance called, off he goes to hospital, got dealt with quite quickly in casualty, diagnosis – Indigestion and Hiatus Hernia, strong hints that he had wasted their time and that of the ambulance service, mixed with few understanding words and easy to mistake them comments.
Now Dave had previously had problems with Hiatus Hernia and explained he knew what that was like, effectively got thrown out and told to stop wasting their time.
Off he went home feeling crap but guilty. Had a bad night, still with chest pains and not feeling well at all. Next day was the same, so next night his wife took him back to casualty by car, the staff were seriously pissed off this time, no test done, just sent him home and told him not to waste their time any more, with his Hiatus Hernia problem, try some Gaviscon from the local Chemist. Went home feeling guilty as hell, but still unwell. Didn’t feel well enough, so was off work for a week.
He was due to go in for an op on his arthritic shoulder the following week, which had been delayed a few times, so as he felt a little better, he decided to have it done. Anyway, the first thing before the op was a check up by the anaesthetist, who soon became concerned, eventually sent him for an ECG, and seemed a bit annoyed when the results came back. Why didn’t you tell me Mr. W, that you’ve had 4 or 5 smallish heart attacks in the last few weeks, you obviously are not fit for this operation, didn't the doctors make that clear to you. He told her the story, she got him admitted for more tests, upshot triple bypass a little later.
Dave thought that was that and hoped he would recover quickly, but did not recover too well at all, and got more concerned. Kept going back to see the consultant who told him it was a big op and could take some time for somebody of his age. Dave told him he knew other people whose recovery had started much quicker, but you don’t argue with a consultant do you. He explained that his main problem was that he had great difficulty breathing, very much worse than before the bypass. This went on for more than three months, with regular visits and similar dialogues. About three months after the op he was due for another visit but got a letter saying his consultant was on holiday, so he could delay it or see another consultant who would take his place. Dave saw the stand in and again explained his problems and concerns as by now he could not breathe at all on the left side of his chest. The new consultant’s reply was “well Mr. W, with the complications you’ve had you may never fully recover".
Shocked Dave and Missus. at the same time reply “What complications ??”
Doc looked a bit stunned, didn’t anybody tell you about the complications.
Er ..... NO !
Seems that during the operation, they had trapped a nerve that controlled the left side of his diaphram muscle, so breathing was not really possible on this side.
The new consultant (by now squirming a bit!) explained that there was little they could do, as an op to correct it was much more dangerous than the triple bypass with only around 50/50 chance of success! If he left it as it was, it was possible that it would improve in time, and also the muscles would start to compensate and help him to breathe a bit better on this side. Fortunately over the last 2 or 3 years it has got better and he is back riding again. But very unhappy with the NHS.

As he was getting better, they had a similar issue in another local hospital concerning his brother-in-law, (another ex biker mate), who had suffered from Leukemia for some years, but after intensive treatment, had seemed to recover, and had been well for nearly ten years.
Had to go in for for a few days for a check up after an accident. came out and was not well at all so went straight back, and got nuch worse. He was told the leukemia had returned. It had, but after a while he started to get much more ill very quickly, with symptoms nothing like the same as when he had been really bad before.
To be brief he died not long after and they were told the leukemia had killed him, his wife commented that he had seemed to be suffering in a different way this time and things had gone down hill very quickly, but after years with the disease, you have to accept this. His funeral was held, and weeks later they still did not have a death certificate. Could not sort life insurance or anything, so kept contacting the hospital and finally 3 months later, they were asked to come in.
Cause of death on the death certificate - C Diff, no mention of leukemia. the doctor explained that the Leukemia had come back, but this was certainly not the actual cause of death.
Dave seems now to have lost even more confidence in hospitals for some strange reason.

[Aladinsaneuk]

I hear you all, and yes some doctors are twats

but - no death certificate, no funeral - law. may be no released post mortem, but.... untill a death certificate is issued, a body is not released from the crown for burial

[HowardQ]

I understand your well informed comments Pete, but that is how it was explained to me, and the death was not really suspicious. Never said the death certificate was not produced, just that the family did not get it.
Could have been a little out on the three months (but not much), as Dave was a little emotive at the time, after these two experiences.
Sadly I could go on with others stories.
These others are not as bad, but all leave a bad taste.
I am certainly not getting at the staff in general who work bloody hard for a lot less money than they should get and often work much longer hours than are reasonable. They need help not criticism!
My wife had a serious op about 6 or 7 years ago, and at night there were hardly any staff. She had noted that the sister did not seem to have gone home for more than three days, although she had seen her nod off in a chair and had just been telling me about it. They were really short of staff on the ward at that time with holidays and sickness, and they were very happy to let family visitors help out in any way they could!
Whilst I was there, the consultant threw the sister out.
Busy visiting time, doctor says to sister you're going home, you need sleep, she says I can't we've got no cover, he says you're going, she keeps saying no and he pushes her slowly down the corridor and out of the ward, trying very hard not to upset her but being very assertive. Visitors, (me included), just sat there, mouths wide open!
Whatever it costs in taxes we should invest more in the NHS.

[fastasfcuk]

TC and howard both very sad stories, but the pressure at ground level to produce league tables must be imense.

[Aladinsaneuk]

I take your point howard

and yes, those league tables are shite - and is one of the main reasons why i do not work in the NHS - main one being that I refuse to put my name to such shitty care but, I digress.


I know a lot of doctors - I know consultant surgeons who'se clinics are in the afternoon, because they are too pissed to operate then - and that is a daily occurrence. Conversly, I know some consultants who start work at 7 every day, reviewing their cases and talking to their patients.... I know some GP's who I do not allow to enter my place of work - But I also know GP's who I will gladly let treat me and mine...

I guess what I am trying to say is that these bad doctors need to be struck off - so I encourage people to complain about poor service to the local PCT. I do not like ambulance chasers, but sometimes the threat of litigation helps - what works better is making a none medical, but chairperson, personally responsible and accountale for the doctors's actions....

[lazarus]

And TC - you went through your career without making a single mistake didnt you?

[Samray]

Most people pay for their mistakes, the medical profession are very good at closing ranks and escaping.

That said I have had experience of catastrophic mistakes by rogue GPs and on the other hand very good experiences of hospital staff.
Does seem a tad unfair to generalise quite as much as you did in the thread title TC.

[HowardQ]

All people make mistakes in their life and their jobs, and we all have to be accountable for our errors, but that does not necessarily mean being thrown out of a job or put in prison even if an error means a life is lost, unless serious negligence is found. It is not as if any medical staff try to deliberately kill people, (not normally anyway!), so there should not be a witchhunt. Any errors need dealt with in some way, and there should be all sorts of possible disciplinary action. The main thing is that the "customers" must be kept informed. Deaths caused by hospital super bugs must not be hidden just because the bad publicity may put the hospital down some sort of league table, and mean lower funding in the future.
The main things that cause errors in any job are often stress and tiredness and poor training. These elements need to be taken out of our hospitals whatever it costs, we should not have junior doctors, or any other staff, working ridiculously long hours to keep hospitals running.
If this means we have to allocate more of the NI payments we make to actually run the Health Service, rather than using it to pay MP's fraudulent expenses or sending our troops to fight wars we should not be in, so be it.

[Kwackerz]

They dont spend any extra on sending Troops to War, they simply rearrange the existing small allotment to cover it, hence no equipment, cutbacks in funding for FAS and navy and of course, The Airforce.

Govt Spending figures:

Social protection £169 bn (benefits, pensions)
Health £111 bn
Education £82 bn
Public order £33 bn (policing)
Defence £33 bn
Debt interest £31 bn
Industry, agriculture, unemployment £22 bn
Transport £21bn


Lets just cut pensioner's pensions out of the equation, sod the scroungers off who cant work, wont work and ram two fingers up at our support to our foreign asylum seekers instead...

Everyone incorrectly accuses the Military of swallowing up all the coffers. Load of bollocks.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sho ... st12699079

Apart from the Poll, the thread below it makes interesting reading.. The NHS IT programme seems to be swallowing up plenty of needed funds?

Also see here for proper figures

http://www.westbury.co.uk/content/taxce ... yield.html

[TC]

Interesting replies, and to be fair, the Hospital treating the Father in Law have so far been superb, although they confirmed today that the tumour for the moment is inoperable, so it looks like it will be chemotherapy or radiology see if they can reduce the size of the tumour and then consider surgery. We wll know more on Monday.

What they did say is tha the symptoms were actually evident when he first visited about 4 weeks ago with a problem affecting his leg and this shold have been picked up by he GP as it is something a first year medical student would have known, but again this tosser wings it and gets off scott free. Not this time, the Mother in Law is going to go for the jugular.

I don't know whether it is just me that has bad luck with the NHS My mother was misdiagnosed 10 years ago (and she was a senior nurse) and within 3 months she was dead, and even when I had my big crash they misdiagnosed my injuries and by the time they realised I was left a cripple and disabled for life which could have been avoided had they done their job properly. Now you see why I don't have much faith.

I appreciate that mistakes can be made, show me somene who has never made a mistake (myself included) and I will show you someone who has neer done anything, but what really gets my goat in this case is that this particular GP is so bloody arrogant he behaves as if he is untouchable I think he is living on borrowed time

Fortunately, working in personal injury and industrial disease law, one of our departments attached to our group is one of the top Clinical negligence legal departments in the country and I have already had words with the boss who also just happens to be one of the top 10 clinical negligence experts in the UK, I think someone is going to have fun with this.

[Kwackerz]

Hope it all goes well TC. Fingers crossed n a prayer said.

[HowardQ]

Sorry kwacks, didn't mean to upset you, I was not meaning we should not spend more on our troops, just not sure we should be in the two current "wars".
I seriously agree that if we do go into any war, as I have said before, our troops should be better equiped, no more carboared shoes, faulty weapons, or unsuitable vehicles with inadequate protection used on street patrols and being blown to bits by roadside bombs.
I would however support our troops going into Georgia as part of a UN force and getting between the Russians and the local troops, what's left of 'em, to bring the "invasion" to an end.

P.S. and good luck TC.