Electrical help

Message

beckh · #1 Post by **beckh** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:43 pm

I dont know whats happened,but sure someone else has experienced this. The Falco has been laid up all winter, came to start last weekend and no battery.Not a drama, had it on the optimate all week and refitted it today. It shows 10.8v on the dash but when I try to start all I get is an electrical thrumming from just to the right of the ECU under the seat (facing forward) and no sign of turning over. I am not sure (even from the parts diagrams) what item is that is making the racket (coil or something?) but it is NOT the ecu or the alarm. Question is, is this just a battery too flat indication, or something more serious. Is 10.8v not enough to pass through and kick everything off ? As previously stated, I am an electrical thicky so any help gratefully recieved as always. Another sunny weekend passes me by

fastasfcuk · #2 Post by **fastasfcuk** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:00 pm

sounds like the soliniod theres a few who've had problems with them.

beckh · #3 Post by **beckh** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:22 pm

Fastasfcuk, after more searching, seems you have put me on the right track. Starter relay/solenoid. Approx 30 quid, reckon that must be worth a try. Anyone got any idea why its gone ? Could be something I did perhaps. I appreciate it could have just failed, but would the motor turn over on 10.8v ? Thanks for the pointer, I wouldnt have found it without knowing the word

D-Rider · #4 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:57 pm

Hi .... you may not need to shell out the £30.

I was going to say the noise is coming from your starter relay - and this may be down to one or both of two factors.

Firstly your battery voltage is low at 10.8v - particularly if that's an unloaded battery.

Secondly, the problem with the relay is it develops a high contact resistance .... which greatly limits the available starting current.
I suffered from this a few months ago - wouldn't turn over very easily and often the starter motor stalled on the compression stroke.

You may be able to recover the relay like I did (and it's been fine for months since I did).

Firstly, turn the ignition off.
Next disconnect the power feed from the relay at the starter motor (unbolt the thick wire that sits on the stud on the starter motor) And Make Sure That The Wire Cannot Touch Anything (If in doubt, wrap it up in insulating tape)

Then, with the ignition on, repeatedly press the starter button about 20 times or so. This will bang together the relay contacts and wear through the oxide layer that will have built up on them. If you want to do it a few more times, that's fine.
Turn the ignition off.

Reconnect the starter motor.

As long as your battery is not knackered, there is every chance you will have recovered your starter relay and will get good operation ..... until the oxide gradually builds up and you need to sort it again.

Sure, the problem shouldn't occur and is down to a poor component .... but it seems to be fairly easily recoverable and doesn't require instant replacement.

Hope this helps

beckh · #5 Post by **beckh** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:27 pm

D-Rider, thanks for that also, I can give it a go first. The bike has been unused for 3 months or so and I think that is enough time for some corrosion to appear in an unheated garage. Will try. I took another look just now and it is definitely the starter relay, given the location mentioned in previous threads, but it will not turn over at all. I had made several attempts earlier today to start it and pinpoint the noise so possibly the voltage is down to the amount of power I sucked doing that perhaps ? The battery has been on optimate all winter so I would have thought it had enough charge. The optimate indicated that it did. Let you know how it goes. Thanks both for your help

FlyingKiwi · #6 Post by **FlyingKiwi** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:56 pm

Apparently you can use a Yamaha starter relay instead of the Aprilia one and it's cheaper.

Yamaha part #4KD-81940-00-00

There's a thread about it on the AF1 forum
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... p?t=141193

back_marker · #7 Post by **back_marker** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:17 pm

Think you need a new battery before you worry about the starter relay. It sounds as if you haven't even got enough juice in the battery to fire the solenoid.

When you say electrical thrumming what exactly do you mean. Are you talking about a rapid clicking? If so, that is a classic sign of a solenoid trying to engage with not enough juice. A very simple way to test if the solenoid is at fault is to use a spanner or other hefty metal object to short the two terminals on the bottom of it together. It will spark lots and may try to weld itself but if it turns the starter motor then you know the solenoid is at fault.

If you want to check your battery, put a multimeter across the terminals on DC Voltage setting. Observe the voltage shown and then switch on the ignition and try to start it with the meter in place. If the voltage drops to below about 9 volts then you almost certainly need a new battery. Since you say it has been on the optimate and still only shows 10.5v I would say that is a good sign it is goosed.

fastasfcuk · #8 Post by **fastasfcuk** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:56 pm

do'nt go buying any thing yet, bypass the solinoid and go staight from your battery's positive to the live on your starter, if it turns over your battery and starter are ok and it's your solenoid at fault. if it does'nt then get your battery checked.that way you hav'nt spent anything with your fingers crossed.

beckh · #9 Post by **beckh** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:57 pm

I suspected battery at first, but its new-ish (never seen action) and unless its inactivity,or maybe a problem with the optimate are an issue then it must be OK. back_marker, u got it, very rapid clicking is the symptom. I'm gonna check the solenoid before I make any rash purchase. So I know where the racket comes from, and I got possibly 3 things to look at before I buy anything, and I never buy until I am sure (tight, I believe its called

), then I am back in the garage in the cold tomorrow night.

beckh · #10 Post by **beckh** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:19 pm

fastasfcuk, thanks for advice, will try it but been laid up with with man flu, so been feeling a bit

. Let you know when I attempt it .

scorpio24v · #11 Post by **scorpio24v** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:52 pm

I would say batterys got not enough charge to turn over engine compression, 2 bucket sized pistons need a big kick, engine stops turning, voltage drops lower, solenoid starts to "chatter" as its just an electro magnet and spring.

If you are able to get a car battery of known performance, use some jump leads and connect direct to the solenoid, connect only one lead to the battery terminal, use the other to make contact with the other terminal, so you will be a kind of "human" solenoid . With the ignition turned on the engine should start as the bike battery will only be powering the ecu and coils.

I used to do that on my old 10:1 compression Laverdas, that sorted em out, that and a sniff of easy start, for the bike not me

a fully charged battery should be inro 13.5 volts off load

Thumper · #12 Post by **Thumper** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:30 am

Yep battery is us

D-Rider · #13 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:20 pm

Hey Thumper - good to hear from you - we were wondering where you'd got to.

beckh · #14 Post by **beckh** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:32 pm

Im gonna wire up my mates Ducati battery first I think. See if thats the problem then I will know where to go next.

HowardQ · #15 Post by **HowardQ** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:49 pm

I know you've probably tried this already but .........
Just make sure you tighten the battery leads up tight when you put the Duke battery back on. Last year a few miles from home, I stopped to put my sunglasses on, tried to restart the bike.... just clicks.

Had not had any problems starting from cold earlier and no other problems recently, not had battery off recently. Have a plumbed in trickle charger and use it regularly.
Checked leads by hand seemed tight, so starting to think must be failed starter motor or solenoid, or even a sudden battery failure.
Just thought I'd try battery leads again and tightened them up that last 1/4 or 1/2 a turn and hey presto fixed. It takes a lot to turn over a Falco and any lead just ever so slightly loose on battery or solenoid etc. can stop it trying.