Advanced motorcycling

[kneescratch]

What's everyone's opinions on "advanced motorcycling"????
Do any of you hold membership for The I.A.M
Or has anyone taken the R.O.S.P.A Test
If so what are you thoughts on this and if not what are the reasons for not wanting further training???

Just a thought

Gary

[snapdragon]

I did got me some 'further training' but neither ROSPA nor IAM - am not a joiner of 'clubs' (except bike Fora of course )

[TC]

I have probably posted a similar reply to this type of question before, so please forgive me if it appears I am repeating myslef or you have heard it before.

I can only speak from the position of having spent the past 30 years as a senior examiner for RoSPA with a 3 or 4 year stint as an IAM examiner, (which I gave up for reasons I won't go into) and stuck with RoSPA, and I was also resonsible for writing, setting up, running and establishing the RoSPA diploma course for advanced instructors.

Suffice to say, over the years I have seen a varied and wide selection of riding skills over the years.

Firstly, let me say that I applaud anyone who tries to make riding safer, however there are as with anything good and bad points, and it very much depends on the quality of the instruction you receive.

Anyone who takes advanced instruction will by the very nature of taking instruction be a better rider. You may not be the fastest, but you will be safer and smoother, and your riding will be more enjoyable.

IAM and RoSPA along with the DSA and DIAmond advanced agreed ona common minimum standard about 4 or 5 years ago mainly to ensure that everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.

Both IAM and RoSPA base all their training and tests on Roadcraft the Police riding manual, which for my sins, I was involved in writing the current edition, and it is this book which is regarded as the bible.

IAM is a straight forward pass or fail, and if you pass, then 30 years down the line you will still be considered an advanced rider regardless of whether you have done any further training or retested provided your subscription fees.

RoSPA has a graded system. Bronze level being the basic pass, silver and then gold which is the equal of a Police class 2 and is regarded as being the highest civillian qualification available. The difference is, that unlike the IAM, RoSPA requires its members to retake their test every three years maximum in order to retain their membershipwhich ensures that standards are being maintained.

To be a RoSPA qualified instructor, you have to hold the RoSPA diploma which requires candidates to attend a 1 week course in Birmingham, and they are tested on their riding, theory, instructional and presentation skills before they are put onto the register. IAM have started to redevelop their observer corp, but in simple terms, they are appointed from within a local group and trained by the group, so standards can and do vary.

But!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you get good training, you will become a better, safer rider, and it will be more enjoyable, but at the end of the day it does not really matter whether you go for a test to get a piece of paper, it is what you put into practice that really matters.

Over the last few years, advanced rider training has become more popular than ever before, resulting in a surge of new courses as motorcycle schools jump onto the bandwagon.

Now, the last thing I want to do is to criticise those individuals who give up a lot of their spare time and do their best to make our roads a safer place, but I would urge anyone who is contemplating taking an advanced training course to ensure that their instructor is suitably qualified.

At the moment, unlike CBT and Direct Access learner training, advanced rider training is unregulated. In simple terms what this means is that anyone who feels so inclined can offer advanced training. Choose your instructor poorly and you may not get the level of instruction that you hoped for.

There are a number of riders out there who have either taken one of the recognised advanced tests, or have attributes they consider sufficient to qualify them to teach at advanced level, when in fact riding to a standard and being able to teach to that standard are often miles apart.

So what are your options?

Well, you could join a local group such as those run on behalf of organisations such as RoSPA the IAM or the BMF. These groups have much to commend them. Not only do they offer a structured training programme, but the cost of joining is relatively cheap, they have a good social side and offer a recognised advanced test at the completion of what is often a 1 year course. The downside of joining such a group is that there is no guarantee as to the quality or experience of the instructor allocated to you, and as with any form of teaching there are good and bad in all organisations.

You could go to a professionally qualified instructor or training school, however costs are invariably higher as they have overheads to meet and a living to make. Being professionally qualified does not always mean that they are capable of teaching at advanced level, they may hold a certificate issued by the Driving Standards Agency authorising them to teach CBT and Direct Access, but they may not have the first idea about the requirements of an advanced test.

So, how can you ensure that your instructor is suitably qualified and can be trusted to give you the standard of information and instruction you need? Quite simply by asking the right questions.

What advanced qualification(s) do they hold?
The main recognised standards are Police class 1, RoSPA diploma or gold grade, IAM observer, holding a Btec level 3 or 4 in advanced motorcycle instruction, or belonging to and instructing for a training scheme such as the BMF Blue Riband.

How many students do they teach at advanced level?
If they only teach one or two perhaps there is something you should know about.

What advanced test do they recommend?
If you are talking to a RoSPA or IAM group, then this will not be a relevant question, but it will be relevant if you are talking to an independent instructor. If they favour one test over another, what sort of results have they had over the previous 12 months?

What type of course do they offer?
What you are looking for are indicators that they have actually structured a course syllabus and are not just cobbling something together ad hoc whilst they talk to you on the phone.

What formal training have they done to attain their current position?
Some instructors are self taught and believe that is sufficient. I have even heard of one guy who believes that 10 years as a courier is sufficient on the basis that having survived for so long he must be doing something right! Ex-racers are often the worst offenders, and are of the belief that race craft is a good aid to staying alive on the road.

Can they provide references?
Perhaps past students or organisations they are affiliated to. Recommendation and approval from your peers is often the best form of advertising.

Do they get their own riding and instructional ability checked on a regular basis?
Many don’t and end up teaching others dangerous practices.

Although this is not a definitive list of questions, it should at least give you the opportunity to make your own mind up about whether the person you are talking to is someone you would trust to teach you. For many people advanced riding requires a completely different approach to what they are used to. If you have any doubts at all, walk away. There are plenty more qualified fish in the sea.

Sorry that it is a bit of a long read, but I hope that it helps you.

[Gio]

Gary I took my IAM 5 years ago and have had 2 observed rides in addition as I wanted to take the RoSPA test. I also had a ride with TC and I enjoyed that very much so can agree with what he's said.

I have now given up motorbikes so the RoSPA test is something I'll never take, but I enjoyed my time on bikes.

BTW the IAM test is a lot simpler (well I think so)

[Pierre]

My mate took the IAM test for cars just to get his insurance discount and asked about until he found the 'easy' instructor. He's possibly the most scary driver i have the displeasure of travelling with, even worse than a woman But he has the certificate so he's a better driver than me

A bobby that i sometimes ride with can tell the area another bike cop is from just from his positioning on the road (usually to his disgust)

[D-Rider]

A bobby that i sometimes ride with can tell the area another bike cop is from just from his positioning on the road (usually to his disgust)

Surely not that difficult .....


Let's say the road is the M1 ..... the southern based rider would be positioned somewhere near Hertfordshire, the midlands based rider maybe near Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire, the northern based rider .........


See, I've got the hang of this already!

[DavShill]

I did the Bikesafe workshop then the IAM. It was the fact the my youngest got into bikes (not a surprise really) and when he was taking his CBT I thought after 30 years I should probably take some training and set a good fatherly example.

Have I gone to any IAM meetings since I passed - no
Have I joined any IAM rideouts - since passing - no, not my cup of tea
Has it slowed me down - yes probably
Do I think it was worthwhile - yes absolutely
Did I learn anything - yes absolutely loads
Do I feel like a better rider - yes absolutely

[Firestarter]

Have only done a Bikesafe course, nothing more (although that's from lack of time rather than willingness).

The Bikesafe was good, but I got more out of the rideout than I did from the class sessions - I understood most of the theory from reading bike mags, but it was good to see how a good instructor put it into use, and get some feedback from him on my own riding. I'd also not ridden with anyone else before, so it was good to see someone else's riding and hear the critique from the instructor on that as well.

Would like to do more, I think that seeing such a simple thing as the Bikesafe make a difference, I wonder how much further a more detailed course would take my riding.

First place wouldn't be IAM, though - think it would be the Wheelie School

[Tweaker]

I rode with the York IAM group until I was up to test standard but never got around to actually taking the test and I've also been on the Bikesafe course. I'd agree with Dave's comments - I learned loads, it made me think much more about my riding and I reckon I ride much more smoothly. I'd recommend the courses to anyone and especially the Bikesafe one - it's only a day (or half day depending on where you are), the coppers were top blokes and the emphasis was on 'real world' riding (their phrase). Do it, you've nothing to lose

[Falken]

I did the IAM test about 4 years since and it really improved my observation skills.
Most of the tuition is about observed rides, and constant updates on your progress, but it was well worth doing and i would recommend it.
If you get in with a good observer that makes it so much better, if not just ask to change observer.

[BikerGran]

I did a course similar to Bikesafe but it was done independently by a local police rider - I learnt loads and it made me much safer and taught me to enjoy riding much more - every time I hear a newer rider say they're not sure about bends I tell them to do a course!

Oh and it was fun as well!

[TC]

M

A bobby that i sometimes ride with can tell the area another bike cop is from just from his positioning on the road (usually to his disgust)

That is not uncommon.

A Met trained rider will position differently to say a Thames Valley trained rider so there are now substantial regional differences.

In the old days (when I were a lad ) the only training centres covering the south of England were Maidstone (where I got my car class 1), Chelmsford (where I got my bike class 1), Devizes and Exeter so there was by and large consistency all over the country.

Now, because there are so few advanced courses, everything is done in house which has resulted in fragmentation of the whole system creating a variation in standards.

Sometimes change is not for the better.

[kneescratch]

Mmm. Some interesting thoughts

Thanks


Gary

[lazarus]

I did the IAM about 6 years ago. It was interesting and quite challenging. It gave me a different way to ride so that I wasnt going slow round corners and wringing its neck in between - I'm convinced that the way the IAM teach you to ride is on average quicker. So yes, it was worthwhile and gave me some "revision" for want of a better way of putting it - I was a born again coming back to bikes after a lay off so I wanted and needed some re-training.

Mind you, it didnt stop me being knocked off my bike so next year I plan to re-take the test!.

[Nooj]

Debz did the RoSPA test and passed at the gold level, she'd started doing it within weeks of passing her DAS, so had no time to pick up any bad habits. I went out with her and her instructor a few times and did learn some good stuff which I do put into practice when I'm out riding, though I think we could both do with a refresher next year as some dodgey habits are starting to creep in.

If I was to do the course and the test I'd do RoSPA as it's an on going thing with re-tests and whatnot. I've never done the test as I don't feel the need to have bits of paper to wave to say I'm a good rider, I'd rather just let my riding prove it (which it hopefully does!).

Personally, I'd like to see everyone wanting to drive a car or ride a big bike have to pass a test equal to at least the RoSPA Bronze level every few years.