NIP

[fatboy]

I received one today and I really doubt the validity of the claimed 35 mph in a 30 limit.
The reason I doubt the claimed speed was this is a static camera I pass usually 6 to 10 times a day during my working day for the last ten bloody years, I well and truly know the fucking thing is there, I have had no penalty points for over 20 years, I make a bloody effort not to get screwed by the 'cash camera'.
It seems all I can do to dispute this is ask for a calibration certificate and go to court, which could be costly if I'm judged against.
I'm 99.999 % sure I was within the limit

[BikerGran]

Do the course, it'll still cost you but no points.

I was a bit doubtful about the one I got in a very similar situation but I decided to pay up and smile - after all, I never got caught on the bike or trike........ which to me proves that bikers have better observation skills! (not that I'm admitting anything ossifer!)


Oh, erm - were you bike or car?

[flatlander]

In the wonderful world of democracy your only supposed right is to stans on the pavement with a sign saying the president is a twat without too much fear of getting hung drawn and dissappeared

So you have IMHO cok all chance of getting a result at court

We had a doughnut muncher pretend to throw things off a motorway bridge and complaining got us the offer of a course which given the lack of money and time you tend to take

The idea of Justice for all is one of the true opiates

[D-Rider]

I received one today and I really doubt the validity of the claimed 35 mph in a 30 limit.
The reason I doubt the claimed speed was this is a static camera I pass usually 6 to 10 times a day during my working day for the last ten bloody years, I well and truly know the fucking thing is there, I have had no penalty points for over 20 years, I make a bloody effort not to get screwed by the 'cash camera'.
It seems all I can do to dispute this is ask for a calibration certificate and go to court, which could be costly if I'm judged against.
I'm 99.999 % sure I was within the limit

I would be wound up by this no end!

Judging things conservatively, if you've passed it even 6 times per day, let's say 5 days per week and lets assume just 46 weeks per year, you'll have been past that thing 1,380 times per year - which would be 27,600 times over the 20 year period.
Even if it only has an active camera fitted for part of that time, you've still demonstrated that you are a careful, speed aware driver.
.... then, rightly or wrongly, it goes off once - just 5 mph over an arbitrary speed limit - no-one injured, no-one killed, no property damaged - no real danger etc etc.
..... and that's making the assumption that this is a genuine reading - which sounds doubtful.

What is the issue?!

In the past, no eyelid would have been batted and at worst, PC Plod would have given you a ticking off and told you not to do it again. Fair enough, if you did within a reasonable period of time, you'd have been done.

What has become of policing that educates and builds cooperation?

[Dalemac]

With the new fines, this is now even more rediculous :(

[Greg]

A computer isn't programmed with an ability to judge mitigating circumstances or allow a degree of discretion .

You're over the limit and you get a ticket.

On the other hand, AFAIK you are perfectly entitled to the photographic evidence and they might even give you a copy of the last calibration certificate - you've got nothing to lose by asking.

[BikerGran]

The new fines only apply (I believe) for 50 in a 30 and 100 in a 60.

In my world, 50 in a 30 deserves a big fine, and getting caught for 100 in a 60 means your obs skills need brushing up!

[fatboy]

Well D-R, this has wound me up no end. All the printed blurb on the NIP make it clear that it will be close to impossible to contest this, no offer of a copy of photographic evidence ect.
Looks like I will end up doing the course

[Gio]

I'd contest it, but then that's me. I'd ask for the calibration log.

[D-Rider]

The new fines only apply (I believe) for 50 in a 30 and 100 in a 60.

In my world, 50 in a 30 deserves a big fine, and getting caught for 100 in a 60 means your obs skills need brushing up!

No - that's not quite right.
There are 3 bands for fines. The one you mention is the top one where you can be fined a week and a half's pay.
The next one down is a week's pay and the bottom one is half a week's pay.

[Greg]

Where's a copper when you need one... ??

As far as evidence is concerned, I really can't see how they can accuse you of a crime then not produce evidence to prove it ...

I had an issue a few years ago where someone driving one of our vans got flashed, but it was before they had the option to prosecute the RK in the absence of any identified perpetrator. I argued - quite rightly - that without proper ID one of us could be being prosecuted for a crime not committed. After 5 letters of increasing levels of bluster and threat it just went away.

I guess the problem is the additional threat of increased punishment by means of higher points/large fine if it goes to court to resolve - which in itself is another lever to get you to cave in and accept their judgement without argument. Surely the punishment for the crime shouldn't be mitigated simply because you incriminate yourself.??

[Greg]

FROM HERE


Speeding Fines Evidence
I do not believe that my speed was as fast as alleged. Can I request the evidence?
Can I request the calibration certificate for the speed camera/equipment?
I'm not sure who was driving. Can I obtain the photo?
The Police will not provide the evidence until I request a Court hearing. Will this subsequently go against me by way of a harsher penalty?
If I plead not guilty, can I change my plea once I have obtained the evidence?
Is there any benefit to having the evidence reviewed by a specialist lawyer?
I do not believe that my speed was as fast as alleged. Can I request the evidence? Can I request the calibration certificate for the speed camera/equipment?
Yes. However, on the vast majority of cases, there is no obligation upon the Police to disclose evidence until the case gets to Court. That said, if you persevere, you should be able to obtain same from the Police on a voluntary basis.
I'm not sure who was driving. Can I obtain the photo?
Yes. If this is not supplied with the Notice of Intended Prosecution, it should be made available on request. However, the Police will emphasise that the photograph does not need to identify the driver, merely the vehicle. Consequently, on many occasions, the photograph will not actually show the driver at all.
The Police will not provide the evidence until I request a Court hearing. Will this subsequently go against me by way of a harsher penalty?
The ACPO guidelines do indicate that evidence should be disclosed at the first opportunity. If the Police are not prepared to co–operate but you are subsequently found guilty, you should be able to persuade a Court not to increase the penalty if it is clear that you have not been the author of any delays or made any unreasonable requests.
If I plead not guilty, can I change my plea once I have obtained the evidence?
Yes. There is nothing to prevent you changing your plea at any stage in the process.
Is there any benefit to having the evidence reviewed by a specialist lawyer?
Yes. Unless you are familiar with these matters, it is feasible that you will not be able to clarify whether the evidence is accurate or adequate. It always makes sense to have this checked and seek guidance at that stage.
Recommended Legal Service: Summary Telephone Advice
If you have your evidence, Motor Lawyers will review and advise for a fixed fee via the Summary Advice Service. This will establish whether the case can be proved/defended, what action needs to be taken by way of calling witnesses or investigating matters further.

[BikerGran]

It seems the increased fines only apply to cases that go to court, and in some cases it's only the wording that's changed to clarify matters

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/n ... =sm_000001

Fixed penalties remain the same.

[flatlander]

IIRC
The early devices you could request the calibration certificate which to some degree is and always was crap because it was not calibrated for all weather conditions. They were calibrated in some cases, Canada, with a tuning fork and a get out was to ask for the calibration certificate for tge tuning fork.

That was later negated by newer systems which did not require this. My experience has been that in reality you take the course which again is bollox ...yes it does have some good information most of which lasts 5 minutes.
There was a case which argued that you were being enticed to incriminate yourself which was found not to be tge case as you were being genourously given the opportunity to avoid more serious castigaron.

Ultimately like most things we will all toe tge line wherever we are told the line is on any given occasion no matter how much it makes us empathise with the Michael Douglas character in Falling Down

[fatboy]

Some very interesting stuff there.
I will end up doing the course because I am only 99% certain I was not speeding, as I said I pass that camera so many times a day I'm in auto pilot mode.
The camera is sited at the bottom of a shallow decent, not at all difficult to coast over the limit.
I hate this, they know it's far easier for the motorist to take the pain and pay up