So many questions

[T.C.]

How, what, why?.............

Obviously wrong to make judgement as we are not privvy to the evidence and it is still early days, but these are the sorts of crashes I used to hate dealing with, just on the basis that it probably could have and should have been avoided.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tw ... li=BBoPWjQ

[Dalemac]

I'd be surprised if it was in no way related to the fella's age.

I know that people keep dancing around the issue, but how many accidents like this need to happen before someone says enough is enough?

Retests for those above 70 should be compulsory to prove suitability to drive. At either 5,3 and 1 year intervals as determined by the assessor.

Reminds me of the South Park 'Grey Dawn' episode.

[T.C.]

I'd be surprised if it was in no way related to the fella's age.

I know that people keep dancing around the issue, but how many accidents like this need to happen before someone says enough is enough?

Retests for those above 70 should be compulsory to prove suitability to drive. At either 5,3 and 1 year intervals as determined by the assessor.

Reminds me of the South Park 'Grey Dawn' episode.

So having said do not make a judgement because we don't have all the evidence, you do exactly that? For all we know it could have been a mechanical fault. We will not know until the inquest. That is why I said, So many questions......

You have also made an assumption that because of someones age they have to be an unsafe or incompetent driver. I see riders and drivers of al ages when I am examining for the advanced test, and there are a lot of older drivers who are a dam site better/safer than some of their younger/middle aged counterparts.

Why do people always make out that they can and are able to do my job without seeing the evidence?

Sorry, not having a pop at you, but I have caught this reply at a bad time as I am getting others who are giving me an opinion on an investigation I have just completed who have not seen the evidence, have no prior knowledge of the crash but know exactly what happened.

[Greg]

I think given what we are all likely to have experienced of 'senior' drivers, there's a greater probability that an octagenarian is more likely to have an accident as a result of a lapse of attention...

Or just plain stupid - I knew an old couple, both in their late 70's. He was a veteran on the Great War and could tell a tale or two. He was also as blind as a fucking bat and literally couldn't see any further than 10-12 feet in front of him. He would drive his Allegro 3 miles from their house to the Co-op in Broadstone every week, with his Mrs. guiding him by saying "Left here Baz", "slow down now love..." etc., I remain to this day staggered by the luck they had in never having a serious RTA... Lots of little parking scuffs though.

Or restricted mobility. I saw an older gent - guessing again late 70's - in a neck collar. Absolutely and completely unable to turn his head. Sideways vision determined by how far left or right he could screw his eyeballs.

Or fear ... How many older drivers refuse to make even moderate progress?? Swerving to avoid manhole covers, braking from 20mph just because there's an oncoming car - on a straight road...

And it's not just cars - there was a daft old geezer on an K1000RT riding into the sports club wearing his lovely tartan bedroom slippers ...

All of these things I saw within a mile of my house..

[T.C.]

Or fear ... How many older drivers refuse to make even moderate progress?? Swerving to avoid manhole covers, braking from 20mph just because there's an oncoming car - on a straight road...

That can also be applicable to young(er) drivers as well.

I once stopped a young lady on the M4 for travelling at 10MPH. She thought she was going too fast. By young lady, I mean someone in theor late 20's.

I had a guy in his early 20's who literally took the old joke of "Tear down dotted line" to heart as he was so blind he had to straddle the white lines so he could tell where the road was going at a maximum of 20 MPH and I have dozens more stories like that.

[fatboy]

Without forming any opinion on this particular matter, there does seem to be a need to re assess driving ability as years advance.
I recently rescued a little old lady who had run out of fuel on a major through route, very steep hill,fast road.
She had driven for less than a quarter of a mile, failed to see the fuel warning light.
She stopped a few yards short of a left turn, put hazard lights on, offside indicator was NOT working so it appeared she was waiting to turn left, the risk of a rear end collision was extremely high.
I stopped behind her vehicle and switched on my really bright beacons to warn traffic.
She got out of the car and wobbled about on her walking stick almost getting flattened by traffic, she had no idea she ran out of fuel, she had no idea what type of fuel the car used, she couldnot understand the difference between breakdown cover and insurance, the plod did not want to know.
I left my mate to direct traffic as I got some petrol for her, told her to try starting the car, she didn't have a fucking clue what to do and just sat there smiling, we got the car started and hoped we would not see her again

[flatlander]

I saw one where the car was going just over 30 on the road outside tgeir house and drove into the back of another car
The driver was about 19 at tge time and is now a paramedic tearing about London
Tge other driver was about 30 and stopped without adequate warning
Yeah ban them all

[BikerGran]

I'm getting old and I know my driving isn't what it was - to a great degree that's because I simply don't drive as much as I used to. When I go on a long trip and I really settle down to it, it all comes back to me after a while, but just driving round at home I have to THINK a lot - it's just not instinctive any more.

And as for driving in the dark - I hate it now! Mainly because I rarely do it. Just because I'm old, really - we went out the other night but only a few miles away. It's easier to stay at home really!

[Dalemac]

I find your response odd.

So having said do not make a judgement because we don't have all the evidence, you do exactly that? For all we know it could have been a mechanical fault. We will not know until the inquest. That is why I said, So many questions......

No, I said I'd be surprised if it wasn't in some way related to his age. That's not a condemnation - I'm not saying lets send him to prison without a trial.

I then re-raised something I've said for a long time. Why is there a complete lack of movement to retest drivers who are likely to have deteriorating health, reaction times, eyesight, memory, etc.

My family batted with my granddad for a long time to get him give up his car. We knew he shouldn't have been driving, but people of his generation are stubborn. They can't concede anything. Maybe they shouldn't be the ones making the decision.

You have also made an assumption that because of someones age they have to be an unsafe or incompetent driver. I see riders and drivers of al ages when I am examining for the advanced test, and there are a lot of older drivers who are a dam site better/safer than some of their younger/middle aged counterparts.

It's not an unfair assumption. As we get older our reaction times get longer, we're more likely to become hesitant and confused.

Why do people always make out that they can and are able to do my job without seeing the evidence?

Why post a topic on a forum (designed for sharing debate/opinions) and then expect anything other than debate and opinions?

Sorry, not having a pop at you, but I have caught this reply at a bad time as I am getting others who are giving me an opinion on an investigation I have just completed who have not seen the evidence, have no prior knowledge of the crash but know exactly what happened.

Was it me?

[Dalemac]

I once stopped a young lady on the M4 for travelling at 10MPH. She thought she was going too fast. By young lady, I mean someone in theor late 20's.

Unfit to drive, get them off the road. Maybe on drugs?

I had a guy in his early 20's who literally took the old joke of "Tear down dotted line" to heart as he was so blind he had to straddle the white lines so he could tell where the road was going at a maximum of 20 MPH and I have dozens more stories like that.

Unfit to drive, get them off the road. How did they pass their test?

See, It's not difficult.

This really is aforementioned south park episode!

[D-Rider]

The last research I saw suggested that older drivers (as a cohort) are no more dangerous - perhaps less so - than those of other ages.

Of course there will be individuals that are a menace but that applies to all ages.

We should avoid ageism through perception.

[Gio]

Best remedy I can think of is treat all road users as idiots and now I'll show my bad side, I blame the retarded drivers from abroad mostly, with the Polish being the worst.
I have every intention of stopping driving when I'm 70, I'm starting to get frightened driving.

[fatboy]

Of course there will be individuals that are a menace but that applies to all ages.

We should avoid ageism through perception.[/quote]

Can I have a 'menace' badge please ?

[Greg]

Do you think there are any differences in the sorts of accidents that old and young drivers have?

I know that we're all perfect drivers of course and none of the normal caveats apply to us...

G

[D-Rider]

Do you think there are any differences in the sorts of accidents that old and young drivers have?

Yes, but I hear that those of older drivers can be managed by Tena