Oil Breather Issue

[falcofreddie]

I'm trying to sell my falco and have run into problems this morning/ would appreciate any suggestions/ thoughts. By the way, public thanks to Pete and Nigel for helping get me back on site earlier today!

A guy came to see bike, clearly loved it, but slightly worried about oil around the airbox (I hadn't spotted this before)- he wasn't using this as reason to reduce price or anything, so was a genuine point. We pulled off oil breather pipe and with engine hot and running and it breathed out about 10 - 15ml in 10 -15 mins. Having read about overfilling problems, we drained some oil so that level ended up about half to threequarters of an inch above 'min' level (don't think it should be running below that) - used recommended way to measure level - warmed to point where fan cuts in, turn off, leave 1 - 2 mins and measure on level surface.
Checked breather tube again with oil at that level and it's still coming out at same rate. Potential buyer still really keen to buy (had cash!), but wanted to get this 'oil out of breather' issue resolved - fair enough.
I phoned and spoke to Griff (sends all his best to Pete by the way) who said he couldn't say a lot without seeing bike and suggested I contact Pete - very complimentary! I suppose my questions are:
Any ideas what might be happening here? - is it just a question of 'they all do that'? Would seem strange if it's still churning out oil when level is towards min level
If no ideas as to what I might try to resolve it, any suggestions on someone good to sort issue out local-ish to North Norfolk? I could just sell it anyway, but now I'm aware of the issue wouldn't feel comfortable doing so without getting it sorted or knowing it's OK.

[fatboy]

Did Griff sound alarmed by this ?
I believe it's D-Rider that refers to the airbox as the auxillary oil tank !
Every time I open my air box the drain tube always has oil in it plus the residual oil swimming around in the bottom of the box, I cant quantify the amount coming out of the breather but every engine must ' breathe', the oil has to go somewhere.
If your motor was buggered, you'd know, it would be smoking like a rastafarian

[D-Rider]

If it's not a thing that Griff can diagnose without seeing it, then that goes for us too. I know Griff says some kind things about some of us that know our way around Falcos but this is something that is no different to a Gen1 Mille and we have no additional familiarity regarding Falco quirks.

I expect the sensible suggestion of Pete is due to him being a resident of the land of the 6-fingered and may be able to cast an eye over it.

Fatboy is right, a bit of oil blown into the airbox is very normal - however the quantities suggested do sound high. Whether it's a concern, is hard to say without seeing it - hopefully Pete can cast an eye.


Oh yeah .... although I may not go under the names of Nigel or Pete .... it was no problem sorting out getting you back on the forum - and thanks to Nooj for alerting us to the problem

- used recommended way to measure level - warmed to point where fan cuts in, turn off, leave 1 - 2 mins and measure on level surface.

That's not quite what is says in the user manual (p55) about checking the oil level. I think leaving it that long after switching off might be a bit too long (though can't be certain). Always check mine right after I switch off.

[Aladinsaneuk]

I can have a look if you like - I am at home all day on sunday if you want to give me a call simon

I do know that it does need to be seen to check as others have said.... I do, however, suspect you have too much oil in it.... as andy said, your system for checking the oil level is not quite right

[falcofreddie]

Thanks very much Pete - when would be a good time to call? - I'm an early riser but know not everyone is!!

[falcofreddie]

Thanks to D rider and fatboy for thoughts/ suggestions - and to Pete for further help - as far as I can see, oil is actually at right level and it's still kicking a good deal of oil into the airbox - will need to be checked out further - will do so and post outcome

[fatboy]

10 out of 10 for your stance on this, holding back on the sale until your'e sure its right.

[Aladinsaneuk]

I spoke with Simon earlier and the oil level, once we sorted out the right technique, is right

I have a feeling this is going to be a simple fix but may take a little investigation....

[falcofreddie]

Update:

I offered my potential buyer (David) the option of a reduced price to go with bike as it is (he has engineering background and more incentive to sort as he really wants the bike). He came round again and spent about 4 hours working through bike this pm and journey to Dave Barkshire bikes (used to be Aprilia dealer locally) for them to have a quick look. Oil is still coming out from breather at very quick rate (about 100 - 130 ml in 55 miles!). Mechanic at DB said crankcase pressure must be running way too high - David had previously checked both cylinders' compression and says seems to be fine. Bike is still running sweetly with no untoward rattles etc. Only issue appears to be loss of lots of oil through breather.

I think I'm really at the 'get a specialist involved' stage now - the question is who would be reasonably close (I'm in North Norfolk) and have the specialist knowledge to keep the investigation time/ costs to a minimum.

All contributions and suggestions very gratefully received.......

[fatboy]

I'm having a guess here as I'm way way out of my depth here...
oil pump failing to scavenge sufficient oil from crankcase leading to pressure build up.
Somewhere will be the exact figure of what the pump can/ should scavenge in a certain time at exact rpm ect.
Do you have a blocked internal oilway some where ?
Oil line to/from oil cooler obstructed?
Dont go throwing money away just yet unles you want to throw it at me !

[Aladinsaneuk]

Simon
Carl Harrison in Harleston
01379 852020

I think this is a blocked oil breather / feed

He is one of two who I trust implicitly to work on my bike - other being Griff

[falcofreddie]

Thanks fatboy and Pete - yes, I'm way beyond my comfort zone
And so will see about getting bike to Carl Harrison - will run breather
Tube straight back into oil filler and so bypass filling air box with oil
In the meantime......only joking!

[fatboy]

Again, before you go parting with money ( by reducing sale price ect), check that it is nothing so bloody obvious you've walked right past it, check all of your flexible oil lines, especially the return to oil cooler on LHS behind the fairng lower.
Give the oil lines a squeeze, try to determine if one is breaking down and collapsing in on itself, rubber based hoses do not last forever and can give weird problems

[falcofreddie]

Just a quick update for those interested:
Bike taken to Carl Harrison - great guy and can understand Pete's positive comments about him - diagnostics showed crankcase pressure way too high and oil still pouring out from breather - especially when under load.
Not possible to find out WHY without stripping engine, though Carl's initial thoughts are that it may be some garbage has somehow got into engine, damaged scavenger pump and possible cylinders.
As my aim was to sell bike and cost of repairing likely to be... , sold the bike to Carl for reduced price and he will use it as learning exercise for new mechanic. I've said I'll contact him to see what has actually happened - likely to be few weeks before this happens, but will contact him again to satisfy my curiosity and post results here in case anyone similarly curious.
thanks again to all for suggestions

[D-Rider]

Thanks Freddie .... and I feel your pain with this