Unexplained major loss of coolant.

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#1 Post by **mangocrazy** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:53 pm

This is essentially a re-post of what I've put up on Facebook, but with extra detail...

Had a really odd/worrying thing happen to the Falco yesterday. The bike is in France and I rode it about 15kms to a local DIY store to buy some plumbing bits (house, not bike). On the way there I wasn't aware of any problems, so parked up, went in the store and did my shopping.

When I came back out and looked at the bike, I noticed that both exhaust pipes and cans were covered with what looked like sticky burnt-on goo. On checking closer, this goo (which turned out to be coolant) was present on the front wheel, front forks, front header pipe, radiators, exhaust, swingarm, chain guard and even the Givi rack and top box. WTF could have caused this? A coolant hose working loose, a holed radiator, head gasket blown - how could coolant have got pumped all over the bike, and I didn't even notice? Some had even made its way onto the rear tyre, thankfully without tipping me off.

The fork sliders had a white ring that had formed around the low point of suspension travel, and even washing with warm water and shampoo wouldn't shift it. The link pipes, exhaust cans, swingarm and front header (but not rear header, curiously) were covered in baked-on crap, and washing them just left what looked like etch marks. It looks like all those parts will need a visit to the polishers to get them back to how they were.

I was intending to bring the bike back to the UK in the van when I'd finished working on the house, but this makes it definite. I suspect its first port of call after landing in the UK will be to Griff Woolley's emporium. Anyone had anything similar happen? Andy suggested the 3-way connecter between the Vee, which is probably favourite, and another poster suggested a cracked thermostat housing. In my deepest moment of despond I did wonder if a head gasket had let go...

At the moment I can't really spare the time to investigate, as I'm on a mission to get lots of stuff done to the house. Some of which is plumbing, ironically...

D-Rider · #2 Post by **D-Rider** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:11 pm

My issue wasn't that the 3-way connector itself had failed but that one of the OE clips that holds one of the hoses had somehow undone itself and coolant was pissing out of the hose between hose and connector.

I'm presuming that you have actually lost the amount of coolant that your messy bike would suggest and not had stuff showered on it from another vehicle or something you've ridden through?
(I'm doubting this suggestion .... but you never know ...)

#3 Post by **mangocrazy** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:58 pm

Good point, Andy. I was assuming that it was a self-inflicted wound. I'll check coolant levels tomorrow.

fatboy · #4 Post by **fatboy** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:50 pm

Thinking this one through but w/out being able to see the crime scene......
In order to cover the forks coolant must have been pumping out at one helluva rate so surely the bike would have been on its way to a big big overheat, cooling fans on, mad dash reading ect and been steaming like a Land that had just forded a stream.
As you ride the coolant would be blown backward not forward.
Hopefully D_R is barking up the right tree

#5 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:44 pm

Yes, FB - I think Andy has established the cause. The bike showed no signs of stress, no rise in coolant temps, or anything untoward. Biut now I think about it, about halfway through the 15km ride in gloriously sunny French weather, I came across a soaking wet section of road that lasted for about 100-200 metres. I assumed it was just water - I now have reason to believe it was something else altogether. Not sure what, but...

This fits with the front header being plastered with the stuff, and the Givi Rack and top box also (as well as the exhausts), but no sign on the engine (or me). The front and rear wheel and discs also have traces on them, as do the fork sliders; in fact the rim of the rear disc is coated with the stuff.

So it's all pointing toward me inadvertently riding through something unpleasant...

D-Rider · #6 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:58 am

Yep - the "cover pattern" was a big clue in my suspicions - along with so much on the bike and getting it home without major boil-up issues.

So whether this is a good thing depends on the relative difficulty of cleaning off the 'orrible crap compared to fixing a leak.

If the clean up is difficult, drop in at Newbury on the way home and give the problem to Nooj!

#7 Post by **mangocrazy** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:06 pm

D-Rider wrote:Yep - the "cover pattern" was a big clue in my suspicions - along with so much on the bike and getting it home without major boil-up issues.

Yes - one of the things I've noticed since fitting the silicone hoses is that the system operates at noticeably lower temperatures; anywhere between 65 - 70 deg C. On the day of the incident I remember seeing coolant temps around 66-68 deg C.

D-Rider wrote:So whether this is a good thing depends on the relative difficulty of cleaning off the 'orrible crap compared to fixing a leak.

It's going to take a fair bit of work. Complete exhaust system (minus rear header) will need to be removed and handed over to the polishers (fortunately there is one less than a mile away from me in Sheffield). Plus the disc rotors will probably need blasting to remove the crud.

D-Rider wrote:If the clean up is difficult, drop in at Newbury on the way home and give the problem to Nooj!

That's definitely a thought. And Newbury is on the route home from Portsmouth...

fatboy · #8 Post by **fatboy** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:23 pm

What the hell did you ride through ?
Maybe you might be better off not knowing.....

#9 Post by **mangocrazy** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:21 pm

I really don't know (and as you say, I'm probably better off not knowing). Whatever it was, I'd say it was fairly concentrated acid or alkali, given its effect on stainless steel. When I was riding that day I had on a leather jacket, a pair of kevlar-lined jeans and a long polo shirt which extended well below the jacket. Yesterday I washed the shirt and it had developed a big hole at the back, below the line of the jacket. Whatever it was had eaten away at the shirt enough for it to disintegrate in the wash...

D-Rider · #10 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:35 pm

Keep an eye on your tyres ! (and various other critical parts)

#11 Post by **mangocrazy** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:24 pm

When it gets back to the UK it will get a proper strip down and inspection. I may remove the bodywork and take it for a steam clean, depending on how it looks.

#12 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:29 pm

The bike (and myself) were repatriated earlier today and this afternoon I set about trying to establish what had sprayed itself all over the underside, front and sides of the bike.

My initial thoughts were that it was a strong alkali solution that I'd ridden over, so I made up a dilute solution of citric acid and dropped that on some affected parts. Nothing.

So the other option being that the bike had passed through an acid bath, I made up a dilute solution of bicarb of soda and tried that. Fizz, fizz, fizz all over the shop. So the bike had clearly had an acid bath...

I then made up a larger volume of stronger bicarb solution and applied it to the worst affected areas; oil cooler, radiators, front header, exhaust pipes, fork clamps, horn etc. etc. The amount of fizzing and sludge that came off the oil cooler and inner parts of the rads were seriously worrying. The paint on the central part of the oil cleaner has been stripped back to ali, and the horn is now bare metal. Even the leading edges of the (stainless) Fuel cans were starting to turn rusty and there is a deposit on the fork stanchions that I am completely unable to remove.

The complete exhaust will need to be removed and have the corrosion polished out, as will the swingarm. The aluminum on most of that has turned milky and it's possible that polishing won't remove it, the damage is that bad. The brake discs will need blasting and it rather looks as if the anodising on the OZ rims has been discoloured in certain places. As you can imagine, I wasn't best pleased when I found this out. Oh yes, and the chain is scrap.

So - if you see a suspiciously wet patch on a road that is otherwise bone-dry, be suspicious. Be very suspicious. My best guess is that it was industrial Citric Acid (often used in winemaking to add acidity to wine that is lacking in same) that was spilled on the road and left for the general populace to enjoy. I suspect a number of people will be wondering why their car suspension/chassis has suddenly rusted through a few years from now...

randomsquid · #13 Post by **randomsquid** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:57 pm

mangocrazy wrote:
The complete exhaust will need to be removed and have the corrosion polished out, as will the swingarm. The aluminum on most of that has turned milky and it's possible that polishing won't remove it, the damage is that bad. The brake discs will need blasting and it rather looks as if the anodising on the OZ rims has been discoloured in certain places. As you can imagine, I wasn't best pleased when I found this out. Oh yes, and the chain is scrap.

Bloody hell, that's a bugger. Keep an eye on your gear as well, I've had a pair of jeans and a pair of boots fall to bits after exposure to something nasty.

fatboy · #14 Post by **fatboy** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:59 pm

What a bloody nightmare for you.
Is there any avenue you could persue regarding compensation?
Looking at the time lapsed and the fact its over the pond,that' s probably hoping for a miracle.

HisNibbs · #15 Post by **HisNibbs** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:55 pm

the effect sound a lot like an early drop of what they put down over here in places when the road is freezing?