57mm Throttle bodies

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Falconihlist · #1 Post by **Falconihlist** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:15 pm

Finally got round to fitting these today after a few months of shooting dogs and whatnot. Apologies for the lack of pictures.

Parts required:

Gen 2 57mm TB's
Gen 2 Tuono Velocity stack x 2 ($1.49 each from AF1 $17 postage or £15 plus postage in the UK) AP8106876
Velocity stack o rings x 2 AP8144581
Bosch EV1 to Denso connectors x 2
Vacuum blank off hose or caps
Dremmel or Colin Edwards lower airbox AP8168761
Fuel line hose clamps
Aluminium crush washer x 2 HONDA part #94109-12000
Forza or Gabro chip would be recommended unless you get a PC map.

I did this job with the fuel reserve light illuminated, as it makes for a lighter tank and less spillage.

First job is to remove the airbox completely.
Discount all vacuum lines, breathers and electrical connectors to the TB's on the bike.
Undo the throttle cables, fast idle and idle adjustment cables.
Undo the 2 circlips that connect the intake boots to each cylinder.
Undo the rear fuel tank bolts.
Disconnect the 3 pin socket that connects the fuel pump electrics. This socket is located just to the left of the battery when looking from the rear of the bike.
Disconnect the water drain pipes from the base of the tank.
Remove the tank WITH the TB's attached.

Once you have the tank and TB's removed, place them somewhere so the tankis on it's nose and the TB's are above the tank. This will help reduce fuel spillage considerably.

If you can swap the idle adjuster plate assembly from the old to the new, then it is advisable otherwise you will have no fast idle. I was unable to do this so will be using the idle adjuster for cold starts. 2 complete turns will give enough for cold starting. (Tried and tested)

Ensure that you have some new aluminium crush washers. Remove the banjo bolt and 2 old washers. Fit the 2 new washers andbanjo bolt to the fuel line and secure it to the new TB. Undo the fuel return line clamp. This will more than likely be the OEM no usable clamp. Fit a new clamp and then fit to the new TB and secure correctly.

Fit blanking caps to the 2 vacuum outlets that would run to the Gen 2 airbox stepper motor. I used a Gen 2 hose and doubled it up, but vacuum caps will suffice. Remove the blanking plug from the forward right vacuum point on the old TB's and place it on the rear right vacuum point on the new TB. This is because the hose that goes to the PPC will not reach.

Fit the new TB to the engine along with the fuel tank and secure all the clamps and fittings correctly. Ensure that the 2 small hoses on the left side are connected to the air sensor, and that you fit your wiring loom adapters.

Refit the throttle cables, fast idle and idle adjust cables. (Good time to clean and service them).

If you have the Edwards lower box, then just fit the velocity stacks and rebuild the airbox as normal. If not, then you will have to get the dremmel out and slightly widen the OEM holes out to allow fitting of the 57mm stacks. Clean up all the plastic swarf, test and adjust as necessary before rebuilding the airbox. Ensure that you have the o rings fitted as well. The Gen 2 o rings are a wider diameter, but also slightly thinner.

Rebuild everything else, check for fuel leaks and fire her up :)

I take no responsibility if you get it wrong

fatboy · #2 Post by **fatboy** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:18 pm

That looks very interesting, be keen to hear how you get on.
Was it D-R who had glitches with 57mm t.b's?
The million dollar question will be performance gain.

Falconihlist · #3 Post by **Falconihlist** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:08 pm

Took the bike out this afternoon. It does need the TB's balancing. Pickup above 3k is alot stronger than before. Going back to standard Falco collector has also helped improve the midrange. No dip at 5k, and it keeps on pulling allthe way through.

Once the TB's are set and CO2 by Griff I will give a complete verdict. May have to get a dyno run me thinks :)

#4 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:05 pm

Falconihlist wrote:Going back to standard Falco collector has also helped improve the midrange. No dip at 5k, and it keeps on pulling all the way through.

What collectors did you have on previously?

Falconihlist · #5 Post by **Falconihlist** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:13 pm

2 into 1 Mille collector that Jay fabbed up to fit Falco headers. The balance pipe mods were done as well.

#6 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:41 pm

Interesting - so you're saying that standard Falco collectors give better midrange than the 'nest of vipers' modded 2 into 1 Mille collectors?

Falconihlist · #7 Post by **Falconihlist** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:44 pm

It is working like that for me. Seems to be because they are already balanced in the collector.

D-Rider · #8 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:30 pm

fatboy wrote:That looks very interesting, be keen to hear how you get on.
Was it D-R who had glitches with 57mm t.b's?
The million dollar question will be performance gain.

54s ... and not just me.
If they are not modified well and the butterflies extremely well matched to the bores it can be difficult to get a sensible tick over. Fine when running though.

57s are a completely different kettle of mackerel - factory made so no issues of matching parts.

D-Rider · #9 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:38 pm

Falconihlist wrote:2 into 1 Mille collector that Jay fabbed up to fit Falco headers. The balance pipe mods were done as well.

Balance pipe mods are a can of worms. I don't think that many people understand how they work and I've seen loads posted up that people rave about (based purely on the fact that they have the mod done) but don't stand a chance of working. Positioning and length of links are important and especially the angles at which they join the main pipes.

I can't tell you for sure what is truly correct or "best" but I think I understand it well enough to know what's really not right.
Renegade, Mark Harris and a few others are the ones with a true grasp of it all.

I've not seen Jay's so can't comment on them - and nor would I comment on a public thread on any similar mods by forum members - unless it was something that was obviously dangerous.

#10 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:39 am

The only true indication of whether a system is better or worse than standard is a rigorously conducted before and after test on a dyno on the same day. I don't see much evidence of this kind of rigour in the modding community. I just see lots of confirmation bias; people believing something because they want to, not because it's been empirically proven.

Falconihlist · #11 Post by **Falconihlist** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:55 am

Have to agree with you Mango, which is why I went back to the standard collector and spoke to Gabro about a custom chip. I will never be pushing the limits on this bike at my level, but I can say that there is a difference. It's also the reason I am still using an airbox and not an aftermarket system.

Aladinsaneuk · #12 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:59 pm

I researched my modded Mille section extensively

I had access to photos of jorge's work and spoke to Mark Harris

The pipe diameter, angle and position is crucial

I rate the mod highly - and those who have ridden my falco have agreed to its effect

For the record, redratbike's produced collectors are probably the best off the shelf version

(I am going by the Dynorod results for that)

D-Rider · #13 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:45 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:I researched my modded Mille section extensively

I had access to photos of jorge's work and spoke to Mark Harris

The pipe diameter, angle and position is crucial

I rate the mod highly - and those who have ridden my falco have agreed to its effect

For the record, redratbike's produced collectors are probably the best off the shelf version

(I am going by the Dynorod results for that)

Agree with all that ... except for the bit about redrat's collectors .... they get a lot wrong (at least wrong in terms of what I've gleaned from Renegade pics, Talking with Mark and deducing how it works) - especially the angles of join.

Aladinsaneuk · #14 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:47 pm

I said they were closest and we do have Dyno figures on them

Mine is a copy of the renegade one ;)

#15 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:02 pm

I think it's interesting (in a Falco geek kinda way) that Ed Elliott (a.k.a. Forza Aprilia) has an RSV that has a full 2 into 2 system, with no balance or crossover pipes, just 2 single, unmolested, lengths of pipe from exhaust ports to end cans. I'm pretty sure he's seen loads of different systems in his line of work, but has opted for a system that most people discount at best or pour scorn on at worst.

Which is why I've asked him to bake me a chip to suit the similar arrangement I have on my red Falco. Having been mightily impressed with Gabro's chip on the (standard) blue Falco, I asked him what he thought about unbalanced systems; 'not a lot' seemed to be his thinking. So it made sense to me to give the job to someone who runs it on his own bike and has doubtless spent a fair bit of time optimising his chippery for same...