Neutral Problems

[cmdrew]

Hi - I know that this has been covered on this site somewhere but the search doesn't seem to be pulling it up. Finally got my Falco back together and running after an engine swap but I am now having difficulty changing gear. I do have the gear linkage inverted as I have put in an RSV engine but it does seem rather reluctant to change gear without a firm shove. In addition, Neutral seems impossible to select with the engine running. In fact from first it seems very difficult to select any other gear.

The clutch seems fine and a quick ride up and down the street didn't show any slip so I'm wondering what else to check. I do have a replacement clutch available (2 in fact from the old engines) but it would be a bit of a faff to swap over if that's not the cause.

I've heard about swapping a clutch jet - where would this be and can I check the jet in either of my spare engines?

[zoidberg]

That's what you want to change. The clutch jet wants to be 0.45 I think. Search that term and you'll find it

[zoidberg]

https://www.ridersite.com/viewtopic.ph ... clutch+jet

[cmdrew]

Thanks for the quick response. Just taken the jet out of one of my spare engines and it is .75. I'll take it out of my RSV engine next and check that also as I know I am looking for a .4 or thereabouts.

[D-Rider]

Sometimes the gear lever binds on its pivot on the footpeg. Taking it off, cleaning it and greasing it will help if that's an issue (along with cleaning the rose joints on the linkage).

[GregD-UK]

Hi all,

Just a side note on his thread (apology to poster) renewed my seals on the racing clutch upgrade, now much harder to find neutral

New fluid, lever hard as nails. Fiddling with the pin and loosing my temper. Turn in, clutch dragging, turn out, can't engage neutral whilst stationary...

Have to flick it in while still moving. Tis the work of the devil

Had it set by a racing guy, who has since retired...

Will try again in the morning. Had a couple of false neutrals while on a spirited ride down to helmsley via stockesley at the w/end. Might of damaged the clutch plates methinks....

[cmdrew]

Seems odd but I had the lever reversed to fit with the new RSV engine to retain 1 down 5 up gear change. Changed the lever back to 'normal' and the change seems much better but haven't yet been out to test it as I haven't gotten around to insuring the bike yet!

[Firestarter]

Hi all,
New fluid, lever hard as nails. Fiddling with the pin and loosing my temper. Turn in, clutch dragging, turn out, can't engage neutral whilst stationary...

Contamination when fitting the seals? Possibly causing something to stick? Definitely used the correct fluid, not this stuff that doesn't mix with the others and forms a lovely emulsion?

[Dalemac]

Hi all,

Just a side note on his thread (apology to poster) renewed my seals on the racing clutch upgrade, now much harder to find neutral

New fluid, lever hard as nails. Fiddling with the pin and loosing my temper. Turn in, clutch dragging, turn out, can't engage neutral whilst stationary...

Have to flick it in while still moving. Tis the work of the devil

Had it set by a racing guy, who has since retired...

Will try again in the morning. Had a couple of false neutrals while on a spirited ride down to helmsley via stockesley at the w/end. Might of damaged the clutch plates methinks....

Sounds like it isn't bled up properly. Have you fitted a bleed nipple to the top of the clutch line? Makes bleeding the clutch line much easier.

[GregD-UK]

Hi all,

Yes Dalemac, have fitted a bleed nipple at top, might have to bleed again... Relax myself and try again this afternoon

[Dalemac]

Hi all,

Yes Dalemac, have fitted a bleed nipple at top, might have to bleed again... Relax myself and try again this afternoon

If i do my hydraulics i tend to bleed them several times. Obviously, the first time after replacing the fluid. Then maybe a trip to work and back (3-4 miles) and then bleed them again. Then, after 2 or three more trips.

Its amazing the amount of air that can be stuck in there!

[GregD-UK]

Hi all,

I agree with bleeding a couple of times. Gonna try manana with an extra pair of hands...

[FalcoPete]

had the same issue, a real pain. Bought the 0.4 oil jet from Griff at Aprilia Performance. Was tricky to get out but once the jet is undone, gently push a wooden tooth pick in a twist anti clockwise as you pull it out gently - works a treat.

Then I replaced the clutch slave with an Oberon unit & filled the new unit & s/s/ clutch line from the bottom end (clutch slave bleed nipple) using a length of tube attached to a small syringe that I use for my stomach RIG tube (cancer). Once the whole thing starts to get some pressure in the lever I left the lever strapped to the handlebar overnight so any air would filter into the reservoir. Bled the system again in the morning and after a ride of 20 miles the gear selection is far better. When stopped & in 1st gear it has a tendancey to want to shift straight into 2nd but a gentle tap & it finds neutral every time - job done & the clutch lever is far easier to operate repetitively in heavy traffic. Hope this helps guys

[fatboy]

One thing always underestimated when bleeding brakes/clutches...air rises, simple as, you can force a shit load of fluid downwards but the air always wants to go upwards so a few bubbles can trash an hours work.
Air travelling in brake fluid is lazy and dont want to go anywhere but up and in its own time....
So before head butting window try the old fashioned method, lever or pedal held in/down and leave overnight.
This is how it was done before vacuum bleeders ect

[mangocrazy]

This relates to bleeding the rear brake, but the principle works in any situation involving hydraulics/brake fluid; get the bleed nipple at the highest point of the circuit and success is pretty much guaranteed:

Following on from Mart's guide for the Fut, I enclose a (hopefully self-explanatory) picture for the Falco (and probably RSV, Mille and Tuono). The rear brakes on these bikes have a well-deserved reputation as being a bit of a twat to bleed. I believe my method simplifies this greatly and makes it pretty much foolproof.

First of all, the picture:



For this procedure, you will need:

1. An M8 x 120mm bolt
2. Sleeving/tube with an 8mm internal diameter, approx 100mm in length
3. A jar/container of some description
4. Brake fluid
5. Clear plastic hose of the correct internal diameter to fit snugly on a Brembo bleed nipple
6. An 11mm ring/open end spanner (to fit bleed nipple)
7. A 10mm socket or ring/open end spanner
8. A suitable size spanner/socket/screwdriver to fit the M8 x 120mm bolt mentioned earlier.
9. A piece of wood approx 120mm x 40mm x6mm to interpose between the brake pads
10. A rubber band, if you're a belt and braces kinda chap

Method:

1. Remove rear caliper from its carrier by undoing the two M8 x 20mm hex bolts (10mm head).

2. Place the piece of wood between the pads and secure in place using rubber band

3. Undo the front of the two M8 bolts (10mm head) holding the offside passenger footrest bracket to the subframe

4. Take your M8 x 120mm bolt and pass through the caliper mounting hole closest to the bleed nipple, as shown in the photo.

5. Take your sleeving/tube and place over the bolt. I used 10mm stainless tubing with 1mm wall thickness that I happened to have around. Similar sized copper or steel tubing would also be perfect.

6. Bolt this arrangement to the footrest mounting bracket hole as shown in the photo, ensuring that the bleed nipple is at the highest point and the brake hose is not twisted (both these points are important to successful operation).

7. Attach plastic bleed tubing to bleed nipple as shown, and ensure that the other end of the tubing ends inside your chosen container.

8. Without undoing the bleed nipple, pump the brake lever firmly two or three times. Tap the caliper and brake hose to encourage any bubbles to free themselves and rise upwards.

9. Walk away, lock the garage/shed door and leave overnight for gravity to work its magic.

10. Next day, bleed brakes as usual. Marvel at how firm pedal feel is obtained after only a few minutes.

11. Undo M8 x 120mm bolt and wooden block and re-fit caliper to carrier. Torque bolts to correct value. Re-attach footrest bracket bolt and torque to correct value.

12. Buy me a beer next time you see me.

That is all.