Aftermarket Levers

[DavShill]

I bought some billet alloy short levers on Ebay last month. I've got the pucka Pazzo italian jobs on my Falco and they are wonderful. These Chinese parts look the business,not quite the built quality of the Pazzos but for £20 they look and feel good. Black with gold fittings, they swapped staight in and I'm happy.

[mangocrazy]

I did the same last year, and am also very happy with them. I think the early Chinese knock-offs were poor copies, but they've now improved sufficiently that they're not far behind the real thing.

And I'm definitely a convert to stubby levers. Long blades now feel flabby, bendy and imprecise.

[fatboy]

Im in agreement with Mango, the feel with stubby levers is much improved, as is the look.
I too have some cheap Chinese levers, 6 way adjustable span,delivered for less than £20.
If i had to critise them then they may need a tiny tiny teeny shim where the fulcrum part fits into the female bar mounted part thingy if you know what I mean

[D-Rider]

I just think it's odd that people want a lighter clutch action so go and fit an aftermarket slave cylinder with a better ratio ..... and then go and undo all of that good work by fitting a shorter lever thus moving the overall ratio back to or beyond where it started.

[mangocrazy]

I just think it's odd that people want a lighter clutch action so go and fit an aftermarket slave cylinder with a better ratio ..... and then go and undo all of that good work by fitting a shorter lever thus moving the overall ratio back to or beyond where it started.

It all depends where you apply the pressure. I apply it in the same place irrespective of whether it's a short or long lever, so the leverage ratio stays the same.

What I do notice is the absence (or major reduction) in lever flex from a stubby lever, particularly on the brakes. That means that more of the force is being transmitted down the brake or clutch hose and that feel and feedback is better and not lost in general flex and sponginess.

[HisNibbs]

One of the easiest way to fall off is to grab too much front brake. So something that requires a bit of a squeeze is a good thing surely!

Difference is between conventional and stubby is mainly cosmetic.

[D-Rider]

I just think it's odd that people want a lighter clutch action so go and fit an aftermarket slave cylinder with a better ratio ..... and then go and undo all of that good work by fitting a shorter lever thus moving the overall ratio back to or beyond where it started.

It all depends where you apply the pressure. I apply it in the same place irrespective of whether it's a short or long lever, so the leverage ratio stays the same.

What I do notice is the absence (or major reduction) in lever flex from a stubby lever, particularly on the brakes. That means that more of the force is being transmitted down the brake or clutch hose and that feel and feedback is better and not lost in general flex and sponginess.

So if you are applying pressure in the same place, effectively both are stubby but one with a bit of a cosmetic overhang.
Soooooo ...... why then should you feel more flex in one than the other? Certainly nothing to do with one being longer than the other. IF it is something other than wishful thinking, it would be more to do with having a different cross section or being made of super-stiff metal.

[Aladinsaneuk]

I prefer the stubby levers with adjustment as I have small hands - and with my pazzo copies I can set them as I want

[Falcopops]

A mateof mine has a pathological hate of short levers.

He reckons that whn racing he can make subtle variations to his braking force by releasing finger pressure that short levers wouldn't allow.

We agree to disagree on this, but I might change my mind when I start my racing career later this year.

Be interested what Keith reckons to these comments.

[mangocrazy]

So if you are applying pressure in the same place, effectively both are stubby but one with a bit of a cosmetic overhang.
Soooooo ...... why then should you feel more flex in one than the other? Certainly nothing to do with one being longer than the other. IF it is something other than wishful thinking, it would be more to do with having a different cross section or being made of super-stiff metal.

Exactly; the stubby levers I have fitted all have a much chunkier cross-section and are machined out of aircraft-grade aluminium rather than stamped out of thin, poor grade aluminium.

As a side note, who actually uses the tip of the blade (or close to it) to apply the brakes? The leverage you'd have would make braking a very on/off affair, surely?

[fatboy]

+ 1 with mango.
My shorties are far chunkier than standard length levers. My fingers naturually sit at the end of the short levers, also who has monster hands large enough to reach the end of long levers ?
Who actually uses the entire length of long levers?
With regard to reduced leverage on the clutch side, I have the span adjustment set to 3 (of 6) on the brake and 5 on the clutch, works for me !
Also there is a fair amount of adjustment on the clutch lever as to where you set the push pin.
I will expect to reduce the span on the clutch lever when i fit my MPL slavecylinder soon

[HisNibbs]

I was quite serious when I implied that a key point to going fast safely is not to be able to over brake. Ok so if you are really quick and have it all sorted out you'll go quicker with good brakes than with poor ones. If however you are average then your biggest risk is over braking or not daring to turn when braking heavily. You'll be amazed at how quick you can get round a corner on gentle throttle and a little pressure (turn in) on the bars to balance it up. Many people never find out 'cause they are over braking.

I remember moving from the Kawasaki z500 with double discs brakes to the Velo. I think I very nearly matched the Kawasaki lap time because I simply could not stop the Velo. I did some open class races with it to get used to it and got quite well up the order at Sneterton FFS. I recollect passing loads of people (f1 Susuki 1000, tz350 etc..) simply because I'd get up to about 100 down the strait then hit the brakes along with everyone else and it'd seem to make no difference at all... Keep it smooth, keep the speed up, stay with it and hope for the best...

I think a really good exercise is to do a few laps without using the brakes. Then start using them sparingly off the main straights etc. So big leavers, big brakes maybe big problem. As for Falcopops's question I think I'd just be fading the front lever pressure away going in and the subtlety is in how much throttle to be applying as you do so. I.e Off the brake and off the throttle is front end wash territory.

Any way I like the Pazzo levers, I bought them from a forum member for bit more than your £20 , the standard alloy levers were badly corroded and these look sexy.

[D-Rider]

Definitely better to corner on moderate but increasing power - balances the bike much better and can corner considerably quicker.
This does of course require "old school" get the main braking done before the bend with a smooth transition through heavy to light to no braking along with smooth throttle control.

OK, maybe GP "gods" will be quicker with brake hard, point and squirt but their bikes are different and more importantly, track turn geometries are not always typical of roads - for example, few of our roads bends more than 90 degrees but many track corners do.

[mangocrazy]

I was quite serious when I implied that a key point to going fast safely is not to be able to over brake. Ok so if you are really quick and have it all sorted out you'll go quicker with good brakes than with poor ones. If however you are average then your biggest risk is over braking or not daring to turn when braking heavily. You'll be amazed at how quick you can get round a corner on gentle throttle and a little pressure (turn in) on the bars to balance it up. Many people never find out 'cause they are over braking.

Wise words. My only track 'off' came when another rider deliberately ran me out wide on the exit to Old Hall corner at Oulton and left me a) totally on the wrong line heading down Cascades b) panicking and c) fixating on where I was going to crash. I was convinced I was braking as hard as I could and also had convinced myself I couldn't turn or I'd tuck the front. I could have done either (but not both) and got round the corner unscathed, but did neither and suffered a low-speed get off in the kitty litter pretty much at the exact point I had fixated on.

I remember moving from the Kawasaki z500 with double discs brakes to the Velo. I think I very nearly matched the Kawasaki lap time because I simply could not stop the Velo. I did some open class races with it to get used to it and got quite well up the order at Sneterton FFS. I recollect passing loads of people (f1 Susuki 1000, tz350 etc..) simply because I'd get up to about 100 down the strait then hit the brakes along with everyone else and it'd seem to make no difference at all... Keep it smooth, keep the speed up, stay with it and hope for the best...

I think a really good exercise is to do a few laps without using the brakes. Then start using them sparingly off the main straights etc. So big leavers, big brakes maybe big problem. As for Falcopops's question I think I'd just be fading the front lever pressure away going in and the subtlety is in how much throttle to be applying as you do so. I.e Off the brake and off the throttle is front end wash territory.

More wise words - and should be required reading for anyone venturing onto a track.

Any way I like the Pazzo levers, I bought them from a forum member for bit more than your £20 , the standard alloy levers were badly corroded and these look sexy.

Damn right...