Anybody used an inspection endoscope to look for water leaks

[HowardQ]

I have a problem with my central heating.
It is a Combi Condenser boiler and it is losing pressure, but we cannot find the leak.
Had C/H engineer in for 3 or 4 hours and can't find anything on the boiler side, so it looks like we have a leak under the floor on the pipes to the rads.
Nothing visible near the rads themselves, so no clues there.
I live in a bungallow which is quite long and the flooring is large chipboard panels with occasional inspection hatches through the floor. (I have no idea where they are but have found 4 so far).
They are in various places under the fitted carpets etc., (usually near the rads), but in some rooms I have fitted wardrobes and the like on top. Just to add to the fun the joists under the floor run accross the narrow way, and the piped mainly run lengthways, so when you can get your head down to look you cannot see very far!

I am thinking of either hiring or buying an inspection endoscope to help me.
There are units that come with a small viewing screen starting from about £100 and going up to a grand or so with better screens.
There are also USB endoscopes with a Zoom camera and LED lights that you can plug in to a laptop, which may be a better/cheaper option.
I am tending towards the latter, but have no experience of them.
Anybody used anything like this?
Turner Hire reckon they have a complete unit that I can hire at £25 per day, but not seen it yet.
Biggest problem is finding the openings in the floor and that is after you get furniture and fitted carpets out of the way, so I may need it for a week.
The USB ones on FleaBay look a good idea at around £40, see here -


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-INSPECTIO ... %26ps%3D54

I would welcome any thoughts on the problem.

[Willopotomas]

Certainly a lot cheaper and easier than having to rip the entire floor up in every room with plumbing. Plus it's one of those tools that'll probably find a use another time you need to see in to inaccessible places.

[HowardQ]

That's exactly what I was thinking Will!
Not lost much and could use it in other ways.
Even if lens isn't great I might just show me a wet patch or water squirting out.
Got my digital camera and a big LED torch down under at the moment, but not spotted anything yet. It should be obvious if I can get near it as it loses pressure very quickly when the heating is off on the stat, or when running hot water is lost 2 bar in less the an hour.

[fatboy]

Would it help to add a dye to the circulating water ?
There are many available,for aiding leak detection

[HowardQ]

Sounds interesting, BUT this is the sealed circuit for the hot water and radiators, so not totally sure if I can use dye.
The digital camera worked well with the LED worklight, have got good 800ASA pictures in 3 or 4 directions in the two hatches I have open at the moment and now know that the main pipes are not where I thought they ran!
Bad news is, I did not find any leaks yet.
I reckon a combination of the camera and one of these scopes might eventually find the leak, so may buy one later off FleaBay.

[GregD-UK]

Hi all,

Firstly, try and turn off all iso valves under boiler and see if pressure drops over night. Some pressure loss is through the Expansion vessel. To test that, you need to drain the pressure within the boiler and fit a tyre pressure gauge to the EV. Should get around 0.7 bar pressure. If pressure is below or zero, then, that's your problem

You can put in leak sealer to system, but, I would only do that if you have pipework in concrete under floor...

Also, the braided hose to the EV could be blocked with magnetite, common problem. Or the pressure relief valve could be passing to outside if EV is defective.... Check for water on 15mm pipe outside, fit a plastic bag over pipe and seal with elastic band to collect water.

Try those and get back too me

[HisNibbs]

Used an endoscope once to inspect a gear box. So you may well find other uses for it.

[MartDude]

Please don't bring it anywhere near me - bad memories . . .

[HowardQ]

Thanks for your comments Greg, VERY MUCH appreciated.
I am not the most technical person but will have a go at most things.
I did fit 3 hot water heat exchangers to my old combi boiler!
This one is an Alpha CD32C (Combi Condenser).
On Friday I had a couple of heating engineers who I have used previously and trust, to go over the boiler, give it a service which was due and then check everything out for leaks on that side.
As I know them, I was talking to them whilst looking for the problem, explaining what I had already checked and about what they were checking, (without being too much of a Pain in the A).
As far as I can recall they checked the pressure for the EV and also the pressure relief valve which was OK. They also checked the 15mm pipe to outside which was OK and did not seem to be passing water to the overflow whilst the pressure was dropping.
I had also checked the pipe before and again today
The braided pipe was replaced athough the original seemed OK, as we had tried everything else.
They decided from this, that it must be the pipes under the floor to the rads. I had to agree with their logic, although wasn't the answer I wanted as the pipes here are so difficult to get at, to check or replace.
I rang the Alpha Help Desk, who have been very good and helped me solve a few funny issues in the past.
Detailed the problem and what we had done and he instantly said it must be the underfloor pipes to the rads.
I did explain that we thought the same, but could it possibly be anything else because it was a massive job to get at all the pipes and very disruptive.

He just really repeated the same, it's a sealed system, so if it is not the boiler, it must be the pipes.

Not sure I can actually shut down the heating uipes, can't find taps to do it and just turning the C/Heating off and running hot water changes nothing.
Strange thing is that it probably loses pressure quickest when the boiler is off on the stat. It loses one bar in about 15 mins or so now, (getting worse!).
The digital photos have worked well down one side of the bungallow and I have checked the pipes to four of the eleven rads and some long runs this way. Will start again pulling up carpets at the other side of the house tomorrow, but more difficult there and I may need the use the endoscope on that side, so think I will order one before bed!
No idea where the access traps are so just doing the sensible thing and lifting carpets and floor coverings near to the rads, but if it is not here and is on one ofthe long pipe runs ............................ ??
If all else fails, I will have to try somebody like ADI leak detection services.
If there is anything else you think we have missed on the boiler side, please let me know.

[HowardQ]

Please don't bring it anywhere near me - bad memories . . .

Yeh, all the ones I have come across in the past, I had to swallow!
That was in the days before fibre optics and decent camera miniturisation so always left a sore throat.
Never had to have one at the other end.

[Falcopops]

If you get the endoscope then you should only need to lift the carpet and drill a hole big enough to the the camera in there.

If it's losing pressure that fast you might be able to hear the leak through the floor, just a thought.

[Gio]

Just wondering if you've don like I did several years ago put a screw through a pipe, only showed up when the screw rusted and let water past, and I'd guess it took 2 years before it did that.

[GregD-UK]

Hi all,

Well you loosing that much water, I would turn off tv and radio, get a long screw-driver and put it on the flow pipe to each radiator and listen

Sounds like a nail/screw has gone through a pipe, or, a soldered joint wasn't soldered fully, maybe a copper pipe has perished where it goes through a wall which is in contact with cemete! That can rot copper pipe over time amigo....

Couple of other things associated with boiler, but, leaning towards a perished heating pipe first.

[HowardQ]

Thanks again Greg!
Will take all that on board and keep looking.
Just tried a screwdriver on a couple of rads before reading your reply so will try all the rest if you reckon it's worthwhile.
Just taking more carpets up at the moment.

Cheers.