Ready For The Olympics ? ... I think Not

[MartDude]

Some contributors to this thread have have attributed at least a partial responsibility for some the attitudes that have brought about this situation to the policies of Margaret Thatcher; IMHO, that's not quite right. I am amongst the last to defend her or her policies, but, the attitudes - the avarice and selfishness - were already there long before she came to power - she merely legitimised them.

One of the principal roots of what's happening now lies long in the past. A century - perhaps only a half-century ago - there were adequate employment opportunities for the not-very-bright & poorly-educated (that may read as elitist - it's not meant to be); armed forces, unskilled labouring jobs. Our relatively recent and current industrial, economic and international standing means we no longer have a need for large quantities of road-sweepers, tip-scratters, and cannon fodder. So, what is our society to do with those who for whom there is little or no chance of appropriate employment? Basically, we don't need those legions of thick chavs whose antecedents dug canals, laid railways, fed blast-furnaces, broke road-stones or stoked the Royal Navy's boilers. What's to become of them? They can't be abandoned - surely, one of the hallmarks of a civilised society is the acceptance of the need to look after the less fortunate, even if there's no role for them; that was one of the corner-stones of the laws of Anglo-Saxon England (or rather the seven kingdoms which made up England), a heritage which our EDL friends, and other right-wing nut-jobs, hark back to selectively.

[D-Rider]

Some contributors to this thread have have attributed at least a partial responsibility for some the attitudes that have brought about this situation to the policies of Margaret Thatcher; IMHO, that's not quite right. I am amongst the last to defend her or her policies, but, the attitudes - the avarice and selfishness - were already there long before she came to power - she merely legitimised them.

Indeed, you are quite right - though surely the legitimising of them was a significant milestone to their acceptance by a significant portion of a generation?

[MartDude]

Very true, Andy; she gave the green light to the entrenchment of a culture of greed and 'me first'.

And we're now reaping the harvest of that sowing.

[flatlander]

I think you have to go further back and understand that the entrenching of these ideas is not done by legislation or legalisation but by acceptance and consent. IIRC part of this process is where a movement which becomes seen as a counter culture to the existing mainstream soon becomes absorbed into the mainstream which in turm is then mofdified to a new set of accepted behaviours.

In this instance one could argue that the birth or evolution of the hedonistic counter culture of the 60's where personal freedoms were demanded enjoyed and tolerated were a more significant milestone in the breakdown of the community ethic in favour of the rise of individualism.

course that could also be all bollocks

[randomsquid]

I think there's always been a rich vein of scumbaggery running through the species. It has manifested itself throughout the ages in endlessly inventive ways.

What we're lacking now is an effective deterrent. Nail a few of the bastards up I say. And if they behave they can be turned the right way up for an hour or so a day.

[Willopotomas]

I think there's always been a rich vein of scumbaggery running through the species. It has manifested itself throughout the ages in endlessly inventive ways.

What we're lacking now is an effective deterrent. Nail a few of the bastards up I say. And if they behave they can be turned the right way up for an hour or so a day.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

[Samray]

I think you may have picked the right tipping point flatlander, though much good came from it as well, and a lot of the harm came from reaction to it.

[flatlander]

the news there is basically saying that the riots are because we don't feed our underclass enough

[Samray]

They didn't look hungry to me, and weren't stealing food.

[Kwackerz]

This gangsta was! Braaap Braap!!

[MartDude]

In this instance one could argue that the birth or evolution of the hedonistic counter culture of the 60's where personal freedoms were demanded enjoyed and tolerated were a more significant milestone in the breakdown of the community ethic in favour of the rise of individualism.

Good point. But, the older social mores persisted for another couple of decades - partly because the 'old guard' were still in positions of power and influence. And until Thatcher cried havoc and let loose the dogs of the free market

[randomsquid]

They didn't look hungry to me, and weren't stealing food.

To be fair though they were stealing essentials. Consumer electronics, branded clothing etc.

[flatlander]

Good point. But, the older social mores persisted for another couple of decades - partly because the 'old guard' were still in positions of power and influence. And until Thatcher cried havoc and let loose the dogs of the free market

I would say that you could atrgue that despite her avowed despising of socialism that she was actually quite egalitarian in this as it took away the supposed influence and power from those of the established order and placed it, to some extent, in the hands of a "lesser" social group.

[Kwackerz]

They didn't look hungry to me, and weren't stealing food.

To be fair though they were stealing essentials. Consumer electronics, branded clothing etc.

Anything that a. looked cool and b. they could sell on ebay / the market

[Kwackerz]

Just when you thought it was getting better, this video from Manchester is just sickening. Mindless anarchy. No Police to be seen anywhere.

http://youtu.be/0cbVW_QS2eE