This could be worrying! Fixed Penalty for Careless Driving.

[Thumper]

From the examples of Police driving I've seen just lately I would be worried as most don't appear to have a clue!!

[TC]

In principle I'm all behind this, but as usual the infrastructure and ability to pull it off successfully just isn't there.

Ideally I'd like to see just ONE moving traffic offence: Driving (or riding) Inappropriately.

The whole idea of having the different catagories that we have now (Dangerous and Careless) is so that the offence fits the action of that driver. We used to have the old section 2 offence of reckless driving, but to prove that offence and get a conviction we had to prove a state of mind, not at all easy hence the reason why it was changed to dangerous driving, meaning all that had to be proved was that the standar of driving fell way below that expected from a reasonably competent driver.

With careless there are two categories, driving without due care and without reasonable consideration for other road users (both under section 3 of the road traffic act) and if the standard again falls below that which would be expected from a reasonably competent driver, then it is not that difficult to substantiate the allegation. as it stands the current legislation is quite sufficient.

The problem lies in the fact that there is too much reliance on technology rather than having coppers out on the road doing the job, after all a camera in the long term will generate far more revenue that one single careless driver

As far as retests are concerned, a 5 yearly retest was considered a few years ago using people like me as the examiners. However, the logistics meant that costs, waiting times and associated problems would create more problems than it solves, and then ther Government of the day suddenly realised that drivers are voters, and anything that was seen as anti motorists would more or less guarantee a major loss of votes at the election, so the idea was very quickly scrapped.

However, the present incumbents have dealt with matters ina slightly different way by ensuring that motorists are hit with more and more stealth taxes and technology driven enforcement rather than real world face to face hands on Policing.

Sorry, I will get off the soap box now!

[HowardQ]

It's OK TC, you always have an interesting comment to make when you're on it!

[Aladinsaneuk]

possible solution to stop potential police abuse re income generation

all fines levied by such actions to go to ministry of transports national fund for road repairs

by ensuring the local plod cannot keep the revenue, either directly or indirectly, that will reduce the risk of abuse

(Case in point - I believe that the removal of locally funded speeding fines from gatsos etc had a direct impact on how many new camera have been installed... could be wrong though!)

[TC]

all fines levied by such actions to go to ministry of transports national fund for road repairs

Bearing in mind that Vehicle Excise Duty is supposed to be used 100% for the maintenance of the roads but only about 1% actually gets used, you can probably guess what the response would be

[Aladinsaneuk]

true

but by suggesting it before it happens it could be argued....

[BikerGran]

If this officer had had the go ahead to be judge and jury I guess this driver would have points on his licence now


Read Daily Mail article here

[lazarus]

I'm a bit uneasy about this too, but mainlybecause it will increase the number of convictions based on nothing more than the punters willingness to gamble on a court appearance. In my personal case that would mean accepting PC Plod's view of my driving, however silly that may be, until I got to 9 points. At whic point my wife would have to take over driving for a year or two because she would have to do that anyway were I to opt to go to court. And the latter option would leave me with a ban on my record.

So in effect I would be bypassing the court altogether.

The other thing that makes me uneasy realtes to my bike accident. The girl who hit me came straigth on at a bend, across the double whites and into the side of me. Because she "lost concentration for a moment" rather than was intentionally doing something daft like racing on the road, she was charged with careless driving not dangerous. Fair enough. The court were kind to her - 5 points and £250 (even though the bill at the end of the day will be between 50k and 100k, and I'm left permanently injured ) but had the CPS done a better job the potential was there to deal with her more seriously. £60 and 3 points would not have been right.

[TC]

The other thing that makes me uneasy realtes to my bike accident. The girl who hit me came straigth on at a bend, across the double whites and into the side of me. Because she "lost concentration for a moment" rather than was intentionally doing something daft like racing on the road, she was charged with careless driving not dangerous. Fair enough. The court were kind to her - 5 points and £250 (even though the bill at the end of the day will be between 50k and 100k, and I'm left permanently injured ) but had the CPS done a better job the potential was there to deal with her more seriously. £60 and 3 points would not have been right.

Whilst I understand your frustration, based on your own comments, to have secured a conviction for dangerous driving would have been very difficult (although again I accept that often the CPS do go for the easy option), but a momentary lapse of concentration would prove difficult to prosecute for dangerous driving in front of Magistrates given the criteria that has to be satisfied for the more serious offence, hence the reason why the lesser section 3 offence is divided into two categories.

Most experienced traffic cops would have no problem reporting and substantiating a decision to report for careless driving, as only the worst offenders normally end up with a conviction, the majority usually end up with a b@llocking often making them look stupid in front of their friends and that has the desired result.

The issue I believe is with non trained or inexperienced coppers who will make a judgememnt based on their own possibly poor standards which is probably no better than that of the average driver, whereas a traffic cop has had to show that his standard and knowledge exceeds that of not only his foot beat colleagues but the public as well. The trouble is that there is no longer (with the odd exception) a prossional traffic department anymore!