When Tony Bliar retires as PM.

[HowardQ]

Personally I think he should be hung out to dry, without a security detail provided by the tax payer. The man is a liar and a crook.

He should also be prosecuted if found guilty of the cash for peerages and sentenced accordingly.

What do you think?

Come on he's a politician they are all liars and crooks, as for peerages, it's nothing new, they've been "pay as you go" for years, other than the original "Lords" and they were outdated in the Middle Ages.
They should either scrap the lot or people should vote 'em in, if anybody thinks we need any more of the lot mentioned earlier.

[fastasfcuk]

i can remember niel kinnock saying they should scrap the lot because their theives and vagabonds.

[Gio]

Personally I think he should be hung out to dry, without a security detail provided by the tax payer. The man is a liar and a crook.

He should also be prosecuted if found guilty of the cash for peerages and sentenced accordingly.

What do you think?

Come on he's a politician they are all liars and crooks, as for peerages, it's nothing new, they've been "pay as you go" for years, other than the original "Lords" and they were outdated in the Middle Ages.
They should either scrap the lot or people should vote 'em in, if anybody thinks we need any more of the lot mentioned earlier.

Indeed, but its worse now than 50 years ago.

[Gio]

In case there's any misunderstanding, I've never voted for the twat.

I would prefer to see reasoned argument than the usual trial by media soundbites tho.
or even Gio's bigotted opinions

Where have I said that others aren't entitled to their own opinion and they have to agree with me

Methinks Sir you are just trying to start a bushfire

[HowardQ]

I don't think things are any worse than 50 years ago, payment for services was much more common then in politics and business.
Most business was in fact done this way, (seen as a favour for a favour). The only difference now is that the press will use whatever methods they can, (bent or otherwise), to get the information to expose these people. it's all bloody sad, journalists illegally tapping mobiles, or if they can't do that paying to "create" the story they believe they want to prove some politician or business man is bent. Stock Exchange dealers creating situations to make their shares more valuable or de-value competitors, even if it means putting thousands of workers out of jobs. Political leaders claiming that countries they don't like have WMDs, so we can invade them. Let's face it being a crook and a liar is a fact of life these days.
What's next, dealers offering us new helmets and kit, if we buy a new bike from them rather than going somewhere else?
OK so we'll go for the last one!! Does that make us bent? Do we care?

[Gio]

I don't think things are any worse than 50 years ago, payment for services was much more common then in politics and business.
Most business was in fact done this way, (seen as a favour for a favour). The only difference now is that the press will use whatever methods they can, (bent or otherwise), to get the information to expose these people. it's all bloody sad, journalists illegally tapping mobiles, or if they can't do that paying to "create" the story they believe they want to prove some politician or business man is bent. Stock Exchange dealers creating situations to make their shares more valuable or de-value competitors, even if it means putting thousands of workers out of jobs. Political leaders claiming that countries they don't like have WMDs, so we can invade them. Let's face it being a crook and a liar is a fact of life these days.
What's next, dealers offering us new helmets and kit, if we buy a new bike from them rather than going somewhere else?
OK so we'll go for the last one!! Does that make us bent? Do we care?

Take a look at some of the major crisis's of the time, like Suez, Eden resigned for what he did, none of them nowadays thinks it matters if they're proven to be liars or on the fiddle.

If you want to stop them acting the way they do then parliamentary privilege has to be binned, they should be allowed to be prosecuted.

[HowardQ]

Yeh but he only resigned when it was totally obvious to everybody he had f***ed up and yeh Tony's at least gettin' pretty close, but he doesn't need to resign, because they've done a deal to replace the leader without a vote!
As for politics in general, it was all black and white then, (well blue and red). Labour in one corner who supported the unions until they closed half the factories, with stupid over the top agreements. In came Maggie who shut the steel and coal industries and brought the country to its knees to get rid of the unions.
Then we got new labour who are somewhere to the right wing of the Tories. The old Left wingers thought it was a ploy to get in, until they realised, too late, that Tony really was a Tory, then too scared to rock the boat. Now we have the new young Tory party, somewhere left of the old Labour and way left of old Tories if we believe young David. Is any of this real, or do they pretend to be whatever they need to, just to get votes. I think the latter, but who the hell do the punters vote for, many haven't got a clue, the majority don't give a **** any more.
We're hacked off with the lot of 'em.
Sorry for goin'on, I'll shut up now, you've probably gathered I don't think much of ANY politicians.

[lazarus]

Is any of this real, or do they pretend to be whatever they need to, just to get votes. I think the latter, .

Thats what democracy is about. You can of course do a "george Galloway" and put forward a program that very few will ever vote for and therefore will never be implemented. Bit pointless though, unless you just like arguing.

The whole point about politics is power. If you never get into power, all you ever do is talk? So you have to trim your policies roughly in line with what the average Joe wants or can be persuaded he wants.

Maggie altered the agenda - few now want nationalised industries, though as memory of what they were like fades away, so does opposition to them. Anyway that meant that labour had to drop clause 4 and move to the right to get in power at all. Now they have changed the agenda and pesuaded everyone that the only problem with public services like the NHS is lack of money - nothing to do with inefficiency and incompetence. So the Tories have had to move left to a tax and spend agenda or they will never get back in power.

No different to selling bikes or washing powder really.

[moletrap]

It's too easy to blame politicians for anything and everything. Society has fundamentally changed in the last 20 years, or maybe that's just because I'm 43 and have seen it that way.

Whatever, to my mind there's basic issues such as lack of respect and failure to take personal responsibility that have accelerated massively in recent years and are causing society as we knew it to change enormously. Changes like this aren't caused by governments, they just have to manage it best they can.

You want something done about it? Like someone else said, do it yourself, it's always the best place to start. Don't blame the immigrants, without immigration you wouldn't have mass house building, a fruit & veg industry, a tourism industry, and cheap airlines amongst others, none of these industries survive by employing native British workers - as a whole they're too expensive and don't work hard enough.

[fastasfcuk]

It's too easy to blame politicians for anything and everything. Society has fundamentally changed in the last 20 years, or maybe that's just because I'm 43 and have seen it that way.

Whatever, to my mind there's basic issues such as lack of respect and failure to take personal responsibility that have accelerated massively in recent years and are causing society as we knew it to change enormously. Changes like this aren't caused by governments, they just have to manage it best they can.

You want something done about it? Like someone else said, do it yourself, it's always the best place to start. Don't blame the immigrants, without immigration you wouldn't have mass house building, a fruit & veg industry, a tourism industry, and cheap airlines amongst others, none of these industries survive by employing native British workers - as a whole they're too expensive and don't work hard enough.

what an insult and a load of b----cks, british industry managed fine before immigrants and could do now. the british worker is'nt to expensive he's under cut by the likes of the poles who will work for nothing.the british tradesman will be next. would you work for £2.50 an hour.

[Samray]

I see the media heve suckered him again.
On the day that Shitty was feted in parliament and left TBs office laden with presents for her and her's, it has been revealed that she is wanted for questioning in her own country about exploitation of low paid workers at her family's factory.

[Gio]

would you work for £2.50 an hour.

Many years ago when I 1st became self employed, my pay was £3000 a year, I worked on average 12 hours a day 7 days a week for that for the 1st 2 years, works out to about 69p an hour. The average pay then was about £2.50 an hour.