IMPORTANT: Getting the show on the road.

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#16 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:35 pm

I do love it when a plan comes together...

I'm also seriously thinking of stumping up for a second tank for the Flamingo Red Falco, but would need to leave that until a few months down the road. The tank for the Blue Falco I can commit to (and have done) now.

D-Rider · #17 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:52 pm

I've also been chatting with Rob (Falconihlist) - he's in but probably needs to wait until next month to deliver a deposit.

It really seems that the "Special Edition Carbon Falcos" will outnumber the very rare official Oasis Green bikes!

spiderwheels · #18 Post by **spiderwheels** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:58 pm

D-Rider wrote: I'm guessing Spiderwheels is "in" having been asking questions in the sub forum .... but has not actually confirmed this. Please confirm so we know where we are.

Yes I'm in, just not quite ready with the deposit. Should be by end of the month. I guess the tanks may have started rolling off the production line by then? :)

D-Rider · #19 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:43 pm

I'm sure Richard can confirm but my guess is that 6 deposits ready to pay, 2 more ready somewhere between the end of this month and some time next month plus Nooj and Anzac likely, it seems all systems are go.

morepower · #20 Post by **morepower** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:29 am

Ok.. Brilliant.. Timescales... First I need to get a tank... Andy has offered to let me use his for the end of this week. The mould maker will have a look at the work needed and give me an idea of how long it would take to have the mould. Then is down to the new tank arriving with him to make the actual mould. I would guess it would be about 3 weeks from the time he has the new tank before I can get the mould then I need it about a week to post cure it in the oven, polish and apply all the coats of chemical release agents to the mould. SO even if it all goes to plan there is no need for a deposit for about 4 weeks from now.. As soon as the mould is ready for use then I would let you know who's tank is about to be made and if they are ready great... If not I would move them down the list one place if they needed a little more time. I would guess it is about 10 days to 2 weeks per tank initially. So it will give you guys a little time to get sorted. If there is any problem or possible problems I should know by the end of this coming week and if I need to ask any questions I will.

D-Rider · #21 Post by **D-Rider** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:59 pm

Quick update
Richard dropped by my workplace this lunchtime and picked up my spare tank.
He'll take this to Vic the mould maker tomorrow so that he can find out what we're up against. It's only to understand what the tank is like - the mould will be taken from a new tank that Nooj is sourcing.
..... There is potential embarrassment if it ever gets out that our new carbon tanks will have come from a mould taken from a yellow tank .... apparently this is what Nooj has sourced

Anyway ..... It was good to meet Richard .... and progress is ongoing

morepower · #22 Post by **morepower** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:06 am

OK guys a quick update for what its worth.... Vick the mould maker has had the tank since last Friday. He has had a good look at the tank and has seen a few problem areas for either making the mould and/or making the tank. It mostly boils down to the bonding up of the base and the shape of the tank. Its a good strong shape with the chamfer along the bottom area. The down side to this is it makes it very stiff to flex outwards to push the base into the tank. That then creates its own problems of what to do to get the flex needed or how to create a bonding face. It could be overlapped over the tank shell (not the neatest solution and all of the weight of the fuel is trying to push the base off the tank.) To get the base inside the tank is harder to do but means the base is pushing hard into the shell and onto the adhesive. Which I prefer. There is a way to make the tank in sections then bolt the mould together and put a specially shaped bladder inside the mould to create positive pressure to push the carbon into the mould as it cures and no tank base bonding is needed. BUT the mould has to be made of Carbon fibre and the bladder has to be shaped to the exact shape of the inside of the mould and be strong enough to be removed once it has cured. The problem is cost of the mould being about £7000 then needing a custom made bladder at about £1000 for the set up and £400 per bladder which may last 1 tank or 10 tanks.. There is no way to know. So I have a meeting with Vick on Friday again and we are looking at affordable mould making options and manufacture.

On the subject of manufacture. I have had a call from a hose supplier and they have a pipe which is suitable for fuel flowing through it but not possibly having fuel inside AND outside of the hose. So the breather and drain pipes are a work in progress at the moment too... I have not bothered with them in the 250 tank and using a solid pipe bent to shape it not an option as it has to be attached to a fitting after the shell has cured then the shaped pipe has to be the exact length and shape as well as in the correct position to be attached to the base either before or after bonding. Fitting the pipe on either section of the tank before bonding will effect the inflatable bladder that is used to push the base down into the adhesive. So it needs to be a flexible hose that can be placed inside the tank and fastened after bonding. The supplier is looking at different suppliers and sizes which my be the only other cheaper option, compared to having my own hose extruded and buying 100 meters of it when I may only need 5 or 6 meters in total...

I may have answers to both manufacture and the hoses by friday. I will let you all know as soon as I know...

D-Rider · #23 Post by **D-Rider** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:36 am

Thanks for the update Richard ..... I guess there had to be some complications - I always find that nothing is as simple as you would like it to be.

Hope you and Vic can come up with a cunning plan.

Nooj · #24 Post by **Nooj** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:54 am

Duh! Obviously I'm in, I was talking with Richard about this before it even went up on here

I'll be wherever in the queue, no rush here.

D-Rider · #25 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:41 am

Update:

I had a call from Richard on Friday afternoon (the line kept breaking up so I didn't catch everything).

He's been in discussion with Vic (the chap that makes the moulds - not the nasal spray) and they now have a cunning plan about how to make it - involving a 5-piece mould.
There are a few compromises but I think they are not great issues and keep things on track.

The breather and water drain are issues that look as though they need to be solved by other means ..... ie a high quality filler that integrates a breather and is well sealed against water ingress - eliminating the pipes through the tank.

Anyway, this is just a quick "heads up" to let you know that things are still progressing. Richard will be along to explain things properly and correct any things of which I might have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

morepower · #26 Post by **morepower** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:49 am

Ok another update.. The tank mould is looking sorted. The construction of the tank has to be different to the Aprilia RS250 tank which has the base inserted then bonded up with a bladder to push it down into the shell. This one has to be an overlaid base which will give a possible 2mm shadow line where it is bonded. Due to the shape of the tank which is a very stiff shape it is not possible to pull the shell open enough to put the base into the tank. But that is my side of it I guess... Now the main issue is the drain and breather vents in the filler neck. The company who were looking for a fuel resistant pipe to run inside the tank and be covered in fuel all all times and be ethanol safe have a problem one is the pipe size which only has a pipe which is lined and fuel safe not a fuel safe outer. The other is they can get the pipe made but there is a minimum quantity order for an extrusion to be made up and this is according to the email I got today 100 meters and it works out at £19.80 per meter inc VAT. The other issue is having the fittings made with the upper one being quoted at £30 per fitting and we need 2 per tank. The lower fitting may be one that can be on the shelf but until they know sizes and exact details they are not sure on that either and may again be a special machined part which would be at least £30 per fitting. That would add £140.00 per tank and leave me with over 90 meters of tube which may not be needed in the future. So the other option is a race filler cap with an internal breather. Which has a short internal pipe that sits inside the filler cap neck area. It is a compromise which may not be acceptable to some so I want to let you know now. I do not run a breather or drain pipe on the RS250 tanks and it has not been an issue so far. But if you are expecting two pipes under the tank for the breather and drain then I want to let you know now this may be one aspect that I cannot get done and keep the tank at an affordable price. Just adding the estimated prices would bring the tank up to closer to £1000 with the extra work needed to fit those possible fittings and may add £300+ to the cost of the mould to put locations into the mould to hold any fittings I can source...

So I would say if this is an issue please let me know and if you decide you do not want to go ahead again please let us know on the page so Andy has an idea as he is sorting it all out...

Here is a link to the type of filler cap I am looking at being needed. You can source your own obviously but this is an example. Which may be supplied in the cost of the tank if I can get a good discount for the number of tanks ordered.

http://www.bikersdiscountstore.co.uk/qu ... -pd-49.php

D-Rider · #27 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:38 pm

I see that AF1 sell the same brand fuel caps in USA for Aprilias:

http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/ ... duct=61553

Also, I've found the manufacturer's website which shows a bit more including colour options:

http://www.accossato.com/en/fuel-cap.asp

Please respond with your views on the acceptability of Richard's proposal and also on alternatives (be they viable alternative solutions or alternative fuel caps) ...

#28 Post by **mangocrazy** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:37 pm

I'm certainly not attached to the pipes running through the tank (literally or figuratively

) in fact it would simplify tank plumbing if they were deleted, which I'm all in favour of anyway. The Accossato fuel cap looks fine, but I'll probably have a Google around to see if there's anything else that might be an alternative.

As it stands, I'm more than happy to move forward on the basis of what Richard has proposed.

<edit> - just had a thought. The filler cap will need to be in the same place as the OE tank filler, in order to line up with the Baglux/Bagster tank harness...

Viking · #29 Post by **Viking** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:35 am

I second what Mango said - if we can use the race filler cap (which will remove the need for all the plumbing inside the tank), then go for it.

Having a small idea of what Richard will have to go through to actually make the tanks, anything we can do to make it easier of him is a good thing.

Nooj · #30 Post by **Nooj** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:54 pm

Race filler cap for me (for the records).