Sentiments differ, I regard my dog as far more than a dog. I chose to have a dog, therefore Im responsible for the quality of his life, including all health matters,so I would pay whatever it costs to have him happy and healthy.
If you dont feel the same,then simply it is a diference of sentiments.
As far as charitable donations go, TC raises fair points.
Do you really know where your money is going?
I recently added UNICEF as a regular donation on my phone bill rather than giving to a generic charity plea in the hope the dollars go to where they are needed
Thank goodness for pet insurance
Moderators: Aladinsaneuk, MartDude, D-Rider, Moderators
Lazarus raises an interesting point. However, surely that argument can't be limited to the extent to which we value and, therefore, commit expenditure to pets. Is it any more acceptable to spend disposable income on cars, motor cycles or toys for our comparatively over-privileged children? Are these "worth more than a human being?" The world would be a poorer place without domestic animals and I, for one, can think of much less worthy diversions for available cash. For Lazarus's argument to have validity, it would need to propose that, after ensuring that we and our families had secured sufficient food, shelter and medical care(?), we diverted all of our surplus cash to starving children. Maybe he'd be right.
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BikerGran
- Gran Turismo
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I just feel that Lazarus is perhaps not a cat or dog person as he clearly doesn't understand how much they mean to us.
And I agree that his argument only holds if one doesn't spend money on things like sports cars, bikes, etc etc, just send all your disposable income to the starving children.
Personally I have a different point of view, that I myself would not put one of my cats through such a stressful process as I can't explain that it's for their own good. We've just said goodbye to our much loved black cat Bubble because she need investigations which would mean staying at the vets, and possibly an operation, and we knew how stressed she was when she had an op before. But that's my personal view.
And I agree that his argument only holds if one doesn't spend money on things like sports cars, bikes, etc etc, just send all your disposable income to the starving children.
Personally I have a different point of view, that I myself would not put one of my cats through such a stressful process as I can't explain that it's for their own good. We've just said goodbye to our much loved black cat Bubble because she need investigations which would mean staying at the vets, and possibly an operation, and we knew how stressed she was when she had an op before. But that's my personal view.
The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young.
Not a cat person BG but I like dogs and have had three ( two great dane and one springer). None at the moment because of the sailing and time away but when eventually we sell the boat I shall have a dog again.BikerGran wrote:I just feel that Lazarus is perhaps not a cat or dog person as he clearly doesn't understand how much they mean to us.
But I dont understand the sentimentality. A pal of mine is a keen hunting type using springers. Looks after them sensibly and isnt cruelk but when eventually they are to old to retrieve well, its out in the back yard with a shotgun. His dogs are a tool and just like a farmer with a ram, he gets rid when the animal doesnt perform. Unsentimental.
I could never be quite that hard but I lean more towards him than TC. Incidentally, I felt very much the same about the money my kids threw away on weddings. It was obscene to spend 10k on a wedding and my wife nearly 1 k on dress etc when there are people starving elsewhere. Surely it would have been more memorable for my kids to have a plain wedding and send the money saved off to do some good elsewhere in the world. They didnt see it that way.
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BikerGran
- Gran Turismo
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- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:12 pm
- Location: Any further south and I'd fall off!
We all choose how we spend our money - I think you have a sports car and/or bike? And a boat. You could part with them and give the money to whatever cause you think is more worthy than a cat. But if I had a cat and a boat, and the cat needed that sort of cash spending on it, I would sell the boat because the cat would be part of my family and the boat is just a thing.
Just as you don't understand how we feel, I fail to understand how anyone can have a cat or a dog and not build up a relationship with them. However, given that you don't, I can see why you wouldn't spend the money, though I do wonder how much you would spenmd on repairs to the boat - which is probably insured for a whole lot more than TC's cat!
Just as you don't understand how we feel, I fail to understand how anyone can have a cat or a dog and not build up a relationship with them. However, given that you don't, I can see why you wouldn't spend the money, though I do wonder how much you would spenmd on repairs to the boat - which is probably insured for a whole lot more than TC's cat!
The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young.
With you all the way.lazarus wrote:Not a cat person BG but I like dogs and have had three ( two great dane and one springer). None at the moment because of the sailing and time away but when eventually we sell the boat I shall have a dog again.BikerGran wrote:I just feel that Lazarus is perhaps not a cat or dog person as he clearly doesn't understand how much they mean to us.
But I dont understand the sentimentality. A pal of mine is a keen hunting type using springers. Looks after them sensibly and isnt cruelk but when eventually they are to old to retrieve well, its out in the back yard with a shotgun. His dogs are a tool and just like a farmer with a ram, he gets rid when the animal doesnt perform. Unsentimental.
I could never be quite that hard but I lean more towards him than TC. Incidentally, I felt very much the same about the money my kids threw away on weddings. It was obscene to spend 10k on a wedding and my wife nearly 1 k on dress etc when there are people starving elsewhere. Surely it would have been more memorable for my kids to have a plain wedding and send the money saved off to do some good elsewhere in the world. They didnt see it that way.
... and yes I had a dog when I was a kid ... and he got sick - so he was put down.
Yes it broke my heart .... but it's still the right thing.
Choice between a cat or dog and a starving child in Africa, Asia or anywhere or the fight against terrible diseases and there is only one direction that I'll support ....
... when I say "one direction that I'll support" ..... I'm not talking of some teeny-bopper crowd that I've so far managed to avoid listening to.
“Scientists investigate that which already is. Engineers create that which has never been.”
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
Having read all, of the last few posts...all i can say to Lazarus is....
Charity begins at home!!...
F**K africa, what about the homeless and starving in this country? the ex-squaddies living rough because they army have made them redundant and they don't know any other life the foster kids that get shown the door at 18, not by the families they are with but because the government says that the foster families can't support them beyond 18!
The youngsters that leave home due to it being safer on the street than in a home of violence and intimidation.
People like you really crank my sh*t, trying giving in this country, it doesn't have to be money, how about volunteering at a shelter soup kitchen over christmas, or with the salvation army....let africa wallow in the cesspet of its own making due to despots and greed, trying giving here!
Charity begins at home!!...
F**K africa, what about the homeless and starving in this country? the ex-squaddies living rough because they army have made them redundant and they don't know any other life the foster kids that get shown the door at 18, not by the families they are with but because the government says that the foster families can't support them beyond 18!
The youngsters that leave home due to it being safer on the street than in a home of violence and intimidation.
People like you really crank my sh*t, trying giving in this country, it doesn't have to be money, how about volunteering at a shelter soup kitchen over christmas, or with the salvation army....let africa wallow in the cesspet of its own making due to despots and greed, trying giving here!
Woah there ... we're flying off track here - and please keep off personal insults, we can debate the issues without chucking crap at each other.
Just for the record I didn't only mention Africa and Asia but also "anywhere" which includes at home.
All cases wherever they are are equally deserving.
Charity may begin at home (whatever we might mean by that) ... but it should never end there. People are people irrespective of where on this planet they happen to have been born and those in need are deserving of help wherever they may find themselves.
Just for the record I didn't only mention Africa and Asia but also "anywhere" which includes at home.
All cases wherever they are are equally deserving.
Charity may begin at home (whatever we might mean by that) ... but it should never end there. People are people irrespective of where on this planet they happen to have been born and those in need are deserving of help wherever they may find themselves.
“Scientists investigate that which already is. Engineers create that which has never been.”
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect those opinions, after all it would be a boring world if we all agreed on the same thing, I take the view (apart from the points I have already made) that I work dammed hard for my money, and it is bad enough working 2 weeks out of every 4 to give a big chunk of it away to the taxman, and so on.
If I wanted to give what little money I have left to Africa for it to be frittered away, (or any other charity for that matter) then I would happily do it. However, in my opinion it should be the choice of the individual, and if people get comfort from supporting such as the African charities or whatever, then good for them, but just don't ram it down my throat.
I have earnt my money, I have responsibilities of my own, and I do not see why I should be shamed or emotionally blackmailed into giving money to something I do not believe in.
Our pets are part of our family, they provide a lot of enjoyment, and if t costs money for them to be well cared for, then so be it, that is my choice and has nothing to do with anyone else.
How I spend my money is up to me! I would not dream of telling someone that they should give up motorcycling and the money they save should be donated to a charity, I have no right and it is not my place, and at the same time, nobody has the right to tell me that I should give my cash to a charity rather than care for and look after my pets who give us a lot more pleasure, comfort and companionship than any unknown faceless person in a third world country will ever do!
Now that may make me sound like I am charity minded. Quite the contrary, I donate by standing order every month to the RNLI and Cancer Research, charities of my choosing and who "I believe" are worthy of my donation. I have donated to the Philippine disaster fund as that was beyond the control of its occupants to a degree
However, until the Africans start doing something to help themselves other than keep sticking their hands out for more money, they will not get a penny from me.
Many here may disagree with my sentiment, that is there choice, but that is why we are fortunate to live in a so called democracy, where we have that choice. I just happen to think that anyone who donates to these third world charities are doing no more or the equivalent of setting light to a bundle of £50 notes. That is there choice, and good luck to them!!
Glad they can afford it
If I wanted to give what little money I have left to Africa for it to be frittered away, (or any other charity for that matter) then I would happily do it. However, in my opinion it should be the choice of the individual, and if people get comfort from supporting such as the African charities or whatever, then good for them, but just don't ram it down my throat.
I have earnt my money, I have responsibilities of my own, and I do not see why I should be shamed or emotionally blackmailed into giving money to something I do not believe in.
Our pets are part of our family, they provide a lot of enjoyment, and if t costs money for them to be well cared for, then so be it, that is my choice and has nothing to do with anyone else.
How I spend my money is up to me! I would not dream of telling someone that they should give up motorcycling and the money they save should be donated to a charity, I have no right and it is not my place, and at the same time, nobody has the right to tell me that I should give my cash to a charity rather than care for and look after my pets who give us a lot more pleasure, comfort and companionship than any unknown faceless person in a third world country will ever do!
Now that may make me sound like I am charity minded. Quite the contrary, I donate by standing order every month to the RNLI and Cancer Research, charities of my choosing and who "I believe" are worthy of my donation. I have donated to the Philippine disaster fund as that was beyond the control of its occupants to a degree
However, until the Africans start doing something to help themselves other than keep sticking their hands out for more money, they will not get a penny from me.
Many here may disagree with my sentiment, that is there choice, but that is why we are fortunate to live in a so called democracy, where we have that choice. I just happen to think that anyone who donates to these third world charities are doing no more or the equivalent of setting light to a bundle of £50 notes. That is there choice, and good luck to them!!
Glad they can afford it
It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world than 30 years early in the next
Don't disagree TC - it would hardly be charitable giving if you didn't have the choice to give it where you wanted or to spend it on what you wanted.
We have taxation for compulsory stuff
There are many who are unable to resolve their own problems alone and are the victims of poor (and sometimes corrupt) government, sectarian conflict or other factors they are powerless to influence.
... and there are those that suffer disaster - like in the Philippines.
Generally where people can help themselves they do but many need a hand to do this
We have taxation for compulsory stuff
However I think that to be extremely harsh.However, until the Africans start doing something to help themselves other than keep sticking their hands out for more money, they will not get a penny from me.
There are many who are unable to resolve their own problems alone and are the victims of poor (and sometimes corrupt) government, sectarian conflict or other factors they are powerless to influence.
... and there are those that suffer disaster - like in the Philippines.
Generally where people can help themselves they do but many need a hand to do this
“Scientists investigate that which already is. Engineers create that which has never been.”
-- Albert Einstein
-- Albert Einstein
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BikerGran
- Gran Turismo
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- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:12 pm
- Location: Any further south and I'd fall off!
It makes me feel uncomfortable when anyone feels obliged to defend the morality of how they spend their money or what their chosen charities are.
This thread has strayed into difficult territory and I think it might be a good thing for admin to consider locking the thread or better still, removing everything that's not directly relevant TC's little feline friend.
We don't all have to agree all the time but lets disagree about suspension or tyres or what's the fastest colour........
This thread has strayed into difficult territory and I think it might be a good thing for admin to consider locking the thread or better still, removing everything that's not directly relevant TC's little feline friend.
We don't all have to agree all the time but lets disagree about suspension or tyres or what's the fastest colour........
The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young.