Here we go again!

Message

BikerGran · #16 Post by **BikerGran** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:29 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote: Cameron got it right - open debate, parliament decided - he says he will stand by it

Only cos he wants to stay in power!

I'm another one relieved that for the time being common sense has prevailed.

Gio · #17 Post by **Gio** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:54 pm

Dalemac wrote:Howard, what you are forgetting id that Syria has oil. This is not about protecting the Syrian population from chemical weapons, it is about de-stabalising government so that they can put their own puppet in control and have someone to do the dirty with on behalf of British and american oil companies.

2nd'd

Gio · #18 Post by **Gio** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:00 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:pissed off the sabre rattlers in the white house - never a bad thing)

I agree but you can see why they are talking like this, USA is the playground bully and trying to hide their own incompetence at attempting to even run their own country ( NOT FORGETTING OF COURSE) that obama is a draft dodger

lazarus · #19 Post by **lazarus** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:24 pm

Here we dont go again HowardQ - at least until the next vote. But I have to correct you on one thing in your post. God is a Yorkshire woman, without doubt. And one of her close relatives, my wife, insists that we ought ot be ashamed of ourselves abandoning children to be gassed.

Aladinsaneuk · #20 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:20 am

we go into syria, we would be labelled crusaders by the islamic dickheads - and they would use it as an excuse to kick off in our country.....

also, on reflection - we do not have enough armed forces to do anything about it - the only thing we could do is let the RAF play....

D-Rider · #21 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:24 am

We could send Tim in - he'd get in under the radar ...... well under the radar ....

Not that I am really advocating anything other than political and economic sanctions

HowardQ · #22 Post by **HowardQ** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:13 pm

Kwackerz wrote:
HowardQ wrote:

My comments on Gibraltar were based on our reactions.

Sit down talk about it and then agree on a way to give it back. We do not need a base controlling access to the Med any more, with cannons hiding in a rock and monkeys laughing at us.
Sadly for you lot I have plenty of time to rant now I am retired.
SORRY AGAIN!

You're not of a military background are you..

We need Gibraltar. it is a key position for both naval activity of a multinational nature, especially submarines (HMS Rooke) Radar/Comms/Signals Rebro (Devils Tower Camp I seem to recall) and a Strategic Air Base at RAF Gibraltar in much the same way we use Cyprus. it's real estate that can be opened for action within hours.

So yes. We do need it.

Oh and with the restructure of the military over the last decade, we've been working with the cheese eating surrender monkeys very closely for years. Anglo French military relations make our regulars as much intertwined with them as we are with our own TA (now called Army Reserve)

Back to the original thread, Glad we're not intervening, although it's been seen coming for a while.

Belated reply -
I am not too keen on war, as there can be no winners these days.
I do hold all our armed forces in very high regard, but wish they were treated better. Dumping some of them recently, as soon as they got back really pisses me off. The homeless squaddies on the streets (London etc.) are a national disgrace.

The old days of war with one line of redcoats and one side of the valley and the enemy lined up on the other are long since gone.
These days the weaker sides don't stand there to be killed for honour, they just bugger off into the jungle/mountains/towns with civis or whatever and just hit you when you are not expecting them.
Nobody has won in places like Afghanistan for years and the Yanks will do no better than the Russians.
As for Gib, I stick with the view that we do not need it the govern access to the Med.
As for the bases, sit down with the Spanish and agree to give it back if we can keep a base/port facilities there for X hundred years, that we both can share along with anybody else in the UN if needed.
It could be another Akotiri, it works there, so why not repeat.

Bloody glad we are not going into Syria, very sad that David is pissed off

lazarus · #23 Post by **lazarus** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:43 am

Kwaks may be right about needing gib etc for multinational actions but do we want to take part in such actions? Other countries of our size dont do so and bigger countries like Germany dont pull their weight at all. Our involvement in such actions is a leftover from the days when we were economically much stronger and had much wider interntional interests like India and Oz

It really is time we were a bit more realistic

Aladinsaneuk · #24 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:09 am

we also happen to have a nuculear capability....

gib is strategically very important to who ever.... i would rather who ever was us.....

blinkey501 · #25 Post by **blinkey501** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:07 am

I have a mate who is now a jehovahs witness.
Nice lad john still see him from time to time.
He talks about the prophecy and how it is nearly time.....
He also has said that complete annihilation will be due to two super powers that work hand in hand together.
That worries me and with what I see with the UK and the US going around the world and doing exactly what john describes it makes me wonder if what john talks about is true.
I am not an over religious person and believe each to there own.
The US and UK leaders talk about war on terror etc. But if someone came over here and started bombing us and killing our kids would you be happy about it?
Would you want revenge?
This world is becoming a worse place and I fear for my kids.
Does this all seem a bit extreme? Not to me.
Why don't we keep the fuck out of other countries and sort out our own pile of shit first instead of sticking our noses in every body else's affairs?
We are stretched with fuck all money. We pay out loads in foreign aid to places like india who has just built a war ship. The INS VIKRANT.
They must be really skint

I may have strange views but are they really that strange.
Does my mate john talk a load of poo?

HowardQ · #26 Post by **HowardQ** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:32 am

I don't think you have strange views Jay, I think people are starting to question older views after endless years of some sort of war, (just how many have we been involved in since WW2, never mind the yanks).
People have become tired of it and finally it seems that America may be starting to go the same way.
Of course we should be helping other countries with problems, but walking into the middle of a civil war never ends with one strike mission.
As Dale says, we have created enough problems in the world, without taking every opportunity to splat some bastard dictator we don't agree with.
When kids are being killed in this way, it is very difficult to ignore, but then again the Yanks killed thousands of kids in Vietnam in the name of peace.
We need to keep defence forces and work with the UN when needed, but let's look at other ways, (yes, I know most have been tried, trade blockades etc.), but we must try harder.

#27 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:30 am

My folks were JWs and I was brought up as a JW, only escaping in my early 20s when I came to my senses. They've been banging on about the end of the world ever since they started, which was in the late 1800s (in the USA, of course). When I was involved they were expecting it all to end in 1975 - yes, they actually were dumb enough to name a date.

Well, 1975 came and went a long time ago, so I'd attach as much credence to their current pronouncements as I would to all their previous ones - zero.

Certainly the world is a scary place at the moment, but is it any scarier than when Russia and the USA were involved in an arms race, and it even went as far as 'Protect and Survive' leaflets being prepared, telling us how to act in the event of nuclear war?

Aladinsaneuk · #28 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:37 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6-2b_3Dmxw

any excuse :)

blinkey501 · #29 Post by **blinkey501** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:26 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6-2b_3Dmxw

any excuse :)

Before I clicked on that link I knew what it was

Falconihlist · #30 Post by **Falconihlist** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:32 pm

Have to agree with Kwackerz on not getting involved. I've spent the vast majority of the last 22 years away in some sh**holes because politicians have been allowed to get away with it. For a change whether right or wrong, Cameron actually put the vote to Parliament, and although he didn't get the vote he wanted, he has made some attempt at standing by it. Would we have had that opportunity with Bliar?

This country has more than enough problems to deal with at the moment, and after seeing the effects of trying to wage multiple campaigns at the same time, I think it is finally about time that the armed forces get a chance to recover from the last 10 years. It's bad enough with all the redundancies, but as Kwackerz will testify, the manning issues are also alot worse with the non effective contingent each branch also holds.