Swingarm, Suspension Linkage, Wheel & Steering Bearings

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mangocrazy
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#31 Post by mangocrazy » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:07 pm

I'd definitely prefer taper bearings over conventional rollers, but it's the torque-down force that a lot of people get wrong. My experience is that once the bearing cups are properly seated, you only need a very low torque setting to tighten them down - probably as much as you can manage with your fingers is tight enough..

To me in engineering terms using taper rollers over ball rollers is a no-brainer. They last longer and you have a much larger bearing surface.

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#32 Post by fatboy » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:50 pm

I was always' told that taper bearings should be initially over'tightened to ensure bearing and races are properly seated, ,then released then tightened down in minute increments, final adjustment should have a minescule amount of play as opposed to no play.
Was I told wrong or right ? :smt017
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#33 Post by mangocrazy » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:22 pm

That sounds about right, I think. Basically you want the bearings to seat properly, but you only want the (s)lightest amount of preload. I would never assemble head bearings with any detectable free play, as the hammering they get would cause premature wear, but just the slightest fraction more than 'no play'. If that makes sense...

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#34 Post by D-Rider » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:22 pm

TBH that's also the procedure for the ball bearing steering head races.

The Workshop Manual is very specific about it specifying the initial torque setting and the final one.

I guess for the taper ones, you'll have to guess the values (maybe the same?)
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#35 Post by mangocrazy » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:03 pm

D-Rider wrote:I guess for the taper ones, you'll have to guess the values (maybe the same?)
I've never seen any torque values posted anywhere, so yes - educated guesswork. No spanners involved, just nipped up by hand is what I do.

But what I'm very careful to do is properly seat the bearing cups. I use fractionally undersize steel blanks with a hole in the middle, a piece of threaded bar down the middle and a nut at each end. Tighten them down with spanners and also give sharp taps with a mallet. When the sound changes you know they're properly seated.

Once you've done that there won't be any settling in and you can set the torque accurately (assuming you know what it should be...) :smt003

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#36 Post by Dalemac » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:45 am

Well, the tapered bearings arrived yesterday despite me asking them to cancel the order only an hour after placing it...


May as well have a go at fitting them anyway.

Mango, this information is invaluable, as I have never fitted steering bearings before. have you considered writing up a short guide up for it? I could take pics of various stages to help anyone else in the future too.

Dale

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#37 Post by mangocrazy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:37 pm

It would be very useful to know the inside diameter of the bearing seats (or the o.d. of the bearing cups, assuming they've sent the correct ones... :smt003 ). That way I'd know if one of the steel blanks I've got would be suitable for the Falco head bearings. The last ones I did were on a 1988 VFR750...

If I do have blanks of a suitable size you'd be welcome to borrow them. All you'd need then would be a section of threaded bar and a couple of nuts and washers. It's the best way I've found of seating head bearings. Avoids a lot of unnecessary violence, and greatly reduces the possibility of the bearing cups going in at an angle.

But getting the old bearings out does tend to involve a degree of violence, I've found... :smt003

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#38 Post by blinkey501 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:32 am

Do we know of an alternative for the pins AP8135924 that pass through the Torrington HK1812v Bearings?

I am thinking these are just bright bar.

Is it possible they could be EN8 with a bit of tensile strength?

Doing the suspension on a falco this morning,

I wish I had a stock of these parts instead of leaving the bike hung up in the air until parts are sourced. :smt012
Tolerance will be our undoing.

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#39 Post by mangocrazy » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:11 pm

Difficult to say, Jay. As it's a bearing surface I'd be surprised if the part didn't have some kind of heat treatment or case hardening. The only way to be certain is to take the old part to a metallurgist for destructive testing, but that would probably be quite pricey. The cost of the part would indicate that the base steel is not particularly exotic, but I'll bet it's had some sfter-treatment.

And I can never figure out why it's called a 'pin' in the part description. Surely the correct term is a sleeve; a bolt goes through it and the ends butt up against plates.

And stop calling me Shirley... :smt003

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#40 Post by blinkey501 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:39 pm

mangocrazy wrote:Difficult to say, Jay. As it's a bearing surface I'd be surprised if the part didn't have some kind of heat treatment or case hardening. The only way to be certain is to take the old part to a metallurgist for destructive testing, but that would probably be quite pricey. The cost of the part would indicate that the base steel is not particularly exotic, but I'll bet it's had some sfter-treatment.

And I can never figure out why it's called a 'pin' in the part description. Surely the correct term is a sleeve; a bolt goes through it and the ends butt up against plates.

And stop calling me Shirley... :smt003
I will order these from Griff in the morning mate.

Thanks for the reply.
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#41 Post by Greg » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 pm

I've just done the swing-arm on the RG and that used a 25x33x35 drawn cup bearing (item 2 in the dwg.) which if I'd got from a stealer would have cost me £30.00+ per side, but which from my local bearing supplier cost me 6 whole Queen's squids for both ...

Image

The bearing sleeves were ok in my case so I didn't need to replace those but would have cost 20 odd per side, but I'm sure that as a standard size a bearing factor may well be able to source these too.

Just sayin...
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#42 Post by blinkey501 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:58 am

I bought the bearings from an external source.
Still 50 quid including vat.
The pins are 11 quid plus vat from aprilia.
That Is what I was asking about?
Tolerance will be our undoing.

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#43 Post by Greg » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:23 am

Just out of interest Blinks, what code is stamped on the bearing sleeve?
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#44 Post by blinkey501 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:44 am

Greg wrote:Just out of interest Blinks, what code is stamped on the bearing sleeve?
HK1812v are the ones I have bought.

These are for the dog bone linkages and swingarm to triangle pivot point.
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#45 Post by Greg » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:25 am

Just in case anyone needs the bearings...

simplybearings.co.uk

enter the bearing code: HK1812v

price ex. VAT £6.87

but check with your local bearing supplier as they'll probably do two at that price for cash..
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