Not sure which

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blinkey501
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Not sure which

#1 Post by blinkey501 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:37 pm

I have provisionally sold the oasis green falco.
I have been looking at other brands for the V twin buzz.
Do I buy a firestorm or a TL 1000.
I have been on various forum's to check out the weaknesses on both bikes.
The firestorm has tensioner troubles on the front cylinder but for nearly the cost of a sprag clutch change on a falco the parts can be sourced and the engine repaired.
The Tl has a bad reputation I know with tank slappers, but with a decent rear shock and damper this is overcome.
I really like the look of both these bikes and I have seen a nice "s" version TL with 11.000 miles on the clock.
Obviously me wanting to make things look better a nice paint job would be on the cards what ever I buy.
Strange as it may be I am actually becoming "bored" with the falco, I suppose this is due to having too many of the same toy.
I have a lot of soul searching to do and decide if I sell up with the falco's, keep the futura go ahead with my plans to personalise this bike and make it unique to myself.
And also buy one of or both of the other bikes.
I will be sorry to see the oasis go, but it has been sorned two years on the trot and somebody who has a falco winter hack has contacted me and wants to ride the oasis in the summer months and keep it nice.
This has of course made me happy as he appreciates how exclusive this wonderful machine is.
Which would you buy the TL or the VTR?
Tolerance will be our undoing.

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#2 Post by Aladinsaneuk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:08 pm

Honda

My mate has a widow maker..... I told you his recent experience....


Let's face it, you wouldn't go to a nurse to get good advice on a problem with a Falco - you'd choose an Engineer or a mechanic...


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blinkey501
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#3 Post by blinkey501 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:16 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:Honda

My mate has a widow maker..... I told you his recent experience....
You did. But I have done a lot of research, asked a lot of questions. And I have the option to ride both before I buy one.
The TL I am looking to buy is sweet mate. As long as the bike is set up correctly there should be no issues :smt002
Tolerance will be our undoing.

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#4 Post by Aladinsaneuk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:24 pm

Mark's is.....

Look at the steering / fork rake


Let's face it, you wouldn't go to a nurse to get good advice on a problem with a Falco - you'd choose an Engineer or a mechanic...


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#5 Post by fatboy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:45 pm

My mate blew up so many Blades, he used to drift them on roundabouts ect, endless wheelies, stoppies, stunt riding every time he rode.
Bought a TL, said it wanted to kill him.
First time we went for a ride, he jumped off the Blade at about 90 and skied alongside then jumped back on !
Nik knew how to use and abuse every kind of bike apart from a TL...
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#6 Post by D-Rider » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:48 pm

Not quite sure of the logic there Jay - from the accounts I've heard, both fall short of the Falco.

For many years I hankered after a Firestorm but glad the Falco came to my attention before I went down that route.

Of the two I'd go for the TL as it has the better engine of the two - are you thinking the original TL or the later "R"?

Thing is, if you are getting bored of Falcos, I really fear that either of these is going to be a poor choice as they are similar but (from what I hear) fall short of the Falco.

If it has to be a V-twin then an SP1 or SP2 might be a better option - or maybe purge yourself with something entirely different?
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#7 Post by mangocrazy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:05 pm

If it's a toss-up between the VTR and the TL, it's the TL every time. The engine was a peach (on the early versions, at least), and a lot of the handling woes were down to people not being ready for a fuel-injected 1000cc V-twin with gobs of torque and power and a short wheelbase.

The suspension was shite, I grant you, and that rear door-closer arrangement (rotary damper) was even worse than a blue spring Sachs. But there are lots of upgrades on the market to fix that. The front forks could definitely do with a set of RaceTech gold valves and a revalve, as they were definitely on the harsh side.

But the biggest single improvement I made to mine was fitting a 5.5" rim from a GSXR600 of the same vintage (slots straight in) and fitting a 180/55 rear tyre. It completely transformed the bike. From the factory it had a 6" rim with a 190/50 tyre and it just wouldn't steer properly. It was vague and wanting to run wide on corner entry. After fitting the smaller rim it steered much better and also shook its head a lot less.

But I have to ask - why do you want one? The Falco is better in every measurable way, except for the engine which probably made a tad more power, but only if you get one of the early ones before Suzuki softened them off. The year 1 models definitely had the full-fat engine, and probably year 2, but after that I think the Elf and Safety mice got to them.

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#8 Post by blinkey501 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:28 pm

mangocrazy wrote:If it's a toss-up between the VTR and the TL, it's the TL every time. The engine was a peach (on the early versions, at least), and a lot of the handling woes were down to people not being ready for a fuel-injected 1000cc V-twin with gobs of torque and power and a short wheelbase.

The suspension was shite, I grant you, and that rear door-closer arrangement (rotary damper) was even worse than a blue spring Sachs. But there are lots of upgrades on the market to fix that. The front forks could definitely do with a set of RaceTech gold valves and a revalve, as they were definitely on the harsh side.

But the biggest single improvement I made to mine was fitting a 5.5" rim from a GSXR600 of the same vintage (slots straight in) and fitting a 180/55 rear tyre. It completely transformed the bike. From the factory it had a 6" rim with a 190/50 tyre and it just wouldn't steer properly. It was vague and wanting to run wide on corner entry. After fitting the smaller rim it steered much better and also shook its head a lot less.

But I have to ask - why do you want one? The Falco is better in every measurable way, except for the engine which probably made a tad more power, but only if you get one of the early ones before Suzuki softened them off. The year 1 models definitely had the full-fat engine, and probably year 2, but after that I think the Elf and Safety mice got to them.
Alas somebody with some know how. The bike is the full power "s" version with a full fairing conversion.
Just been talking to irishness on the phone. and my words were, "I have learn't a lot about the falco. But all I seem to do is stick with this one bike". I have mounted a small fortune in bits. I have some rare and nice components which I soon will be letting go. The magpie will be up for sale when I have converted it back to the standard swingarm and falco exhaust system.
Could I sell the storm trooper? Mmm not sure, I have over 4 grand in that bike and would not get my money back so maybe it could sit in the garage and I could ride it on occasions.
I will finish the track bike as it would only really need a full day to complete. That bike is really the only one that owes me next to nothing.
The futura will be finished in the next six weeks ready for martdude's meet.

I am just fed up with the falco, at one time of day I would have never dreamed of selling the oasis, but the buyer collects it within a fortnight.
I want something else that is a V twin and I have always liked the look of the TL.
And andy inline 4's just don't do it for me, they lack soul and character.
The TL as I say I have done a lot of reaserch and I know what I am getting myself into.
Tolerance will be our undoing.

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#9 Post by mangocrazy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:33 pm

And the early VTRs had a ridiculously small tank range; all of them had forks that were undersprung and over-damped. I remember the year that both the TL and the VTR came out. The VTR looked unfinished, like it had been rushed out to compete with the TL. The TL1000S looked a million dollars next to the VTR. When I had mine and stopped for a cuppa it always got loads of attention. But it was in the best colour - British Racing Green...

Don't even think about the R - it's an absolute whale (and looks like one). The engine did have more top end than the S, but it lost out in the midrange. And it weighed a ton. Big lardy-arse thing...

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#10 Post by BikerGran » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:45 pm

friend of mine had a TL and said he didn't know what all the fuss was about, he never had any problems with it. That's all I know.
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#11 Post by Aladinsaneuk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:59 pm

if you want a challenge then so be it

i have ridden both - the firestorm was honest but nothing special

marks tl, which is an early one - has a great engine - but its a dog handling wise
(its setup properly but the fork rake is wrong imho)


go buy that blue mille you wanted


Let's face it, you wouldn't go to a nurse to get good advice on a problem with a Falco - you'd choose an Engineer or a mechanic...


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#12 Post by HisNibbs » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:18 pm

Not ridden either but a TL1000s was in the frame when I bought the Falco, the Honda definitely wasn't.

Always liked the Yamaha TDM sports twin too. I know its not a V but I think it worth look if you are after something different.
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#13 Post by D-Rider » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:23 pm

blinkey501 wrote:
And andy inline 4's just don't do it for me, they lack soul and character.
The TL as I say I have done a lot of reaserch and I know what I am getting myself into.
I don't recall specifying an I-4

Plenty of other configurations. Parallel Twins, Triples, V-4s, horizontally opposed twins or fours and what about an old 'stroker?
Might even find a rotary ......
blinkey501 wrote: I am just fed up with the falco, at one time of day I would have never dreamed of selling the oasis, but the buyer collects it within a fortnight.
I may have missed something but why are you fed up with them? Didn't think you'd had a catalogue of disasters or anything to give you your fill of them.

Not trying to suggest that a Falco is the be all and end all and you should never move on but I honestly think you are looking at similar but lesser bikes that will only disappoint.
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#14 Post by mangocrazy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:30 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:marks tl, which is an early one - has a great engine - but its a dog handling wise
(its setup properly but the fork rake is wrong imho)
If his TL handles like a dog, then it's not set up properly, simple.

TLs can handle very well indeed, providing the OE rear suspension is junked and a correct profile tyre is used on the rear. A lot of the TL's alleged 'front end' problems actually emanated from the rear of the bike.

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#15 Post by Aladinsaneuk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:56 pm

disagree graham

mark knows his onions - in terms of riding ability he is as close to keith as as any i know - very smooth etc

he bought the TL as a run around while he works on his latest street fighter project

he got it for a decent price

he switched out the standard rear shock for an appropriate ohlins unit
the front forks were serviced and set up by mc technics - along with the rest of the bike - mark being mark insisted that Darren did the work, not the yts boy btw....

he is scrupulous about his tyres and profiles - he will try things but does do his research

so

having ensured that any handling problems are nothing to do with the poultice rear shock that was fitted as standard

or the tyres - various different tyres were tried

he then started to look as to why and where it handles so poorly

a well tensioned steering damper cured most of the ills. prior to sorting that, the bike twitched when braking, and when the forks were flexing
(I rode it at that time for the first time - it was great when accelerating - very good engine - start to brake hard and lean - it squirmed)

once a good quality damper had been fitted, the bike was a lot better - far better in changing a line at an angle and so on

allegedly - and i am referring to the mark one versions - suzuki changed the angle of fork rake to fit the bike into a standard size crate - they needed to shorten bike or frame length... that could well be total bull shit - i do not know - but what i do know is that the rake on the early TL is short - and i do not think that helps the handling

marks bike is a nice bike - but would i ride it day in and day out - nope
would i ride it in the drizzle /rain etc - nope
ie - would i trust it - nope

BUT it is down to individual views


Let's face it, you wouldn't go to a nurse to get good advice on a problem with a Falco - you'd choose an Engineer or a mechanic...


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