Have things changed?

[D-Rider]

As some of you know, my youngest son has had a scooter for a few months.
He's been stopped a couple of times by the police - not because he was doing anything wrong but just to check out his documents and his bike. Reminds me of when I started out on a 50 - exactly the same thing 30 odd years ago!
Thinking back, I don't think I've ever been stopped just to have things checked out on anything bigger than a 50. I guess it has always been par for the course if you are young and are riding a small bike.

However, recently my son did make a mistake - for which I've just had to cough up to pay his £30 fine.
He and his mate happened to turn right at a set of traffic lights - not noticing a turn restriction preventing this. Bit of a shame the lights were right outside the police station ..... and PC Plod happened to notice. Now I agree they'd not complied with the turn restriction ... the bus at the front of the queue that also turned right was permitted to do so but the car that followed the bus was not. They followed the car but, of course, only they were stopped.
Now I don't have a problem with them being stopped - I'm glad they were. They are learners and pointing out such errors is a valuable part of their learning process.
What seems very hash to me is that rather than having a word to educate a couple of inexperienced riders that had failed to spot a sign, they were each immediately slapped with a £30 fine - especially as the experienced driver in front (of which more should be expected) was just ignored (..... not to mention the comparative inequity of the number of motorists that continue to use their mobile phones with impunity....)
Maybe I'm wrong, but in the past this would have been dealt with by a quiet chat and, perhaps, a warning.
I fail to see how instant fines for genuine mistakes is going to do anything to foster any respect for the police in the younger generation.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking this harsh (probably because it's cost me money!) or does anyone agree?

[Kwackerz]

I used to get stopped in the car on a regular basis. I never got a fine. went to court once for somehting highly dodgy involving a tax disc and brake fluid, but apart from that, never been fined.

I think it's just the luck of the draw. My mates have had numerous fines over the years and countless court appearances.

I agree they maybe got it a bit harsh, but then again that's cos ive always had it easy. (or talked myself out of it)

You want easy? 70mph down thru Chatham in my old BMW 316 trying to get back to Cambridge for the birth of my eldest I think it was. I had just been let off Guard at Brompton Bks and had a bit of a shuffle on to put it mildly.
Got stopped, explained myself (it was about midnight) got told off, then proceeded to get a Police Escort as I was in Green kit and the originating copper had had his kid born a short while before, was an ex squaddie and wanted to help. 95mph up the M2 headed up to Dartford tagging on the arse of a Senator with his blues on is an experience.

[Samray]

Coppers , apart from the odd jobsworth, aren't machines. They have their good days and bad days like the rest of us.
In my experience they are also influenced by your reaction to them.

Of course if it was outside the nick, with the sarge looking on .....





My opinion will doubtless change next time I get stopped.

[snapdragon]

Tis a shame, but to many of our blue feathered friends bikers 'must' be baddies and junior bikers 'must' be up to something naughty, wheras the driver of the jag on his mobile phone 'must' be an upstanding member of the community, ho hum

[TC]

Unfortunately the power of discretion has been drummed out of many young coppers, it is now all about meeting targets, being seen to be productive and by and large nicking anyone who moves.

When I first started it was very much the other way around, b@llocking first depending on the offence, and only if the individual refuse toaccept a bit of friendly advice did you then start thinking about reporting for summons, it was the prescence that was more important than numbers

For the main part I think it worked as a good finger wagging lasted in the mind much longer than a fine or booking, and the individual went away thinking he had just had a close shave, but maybe it is a sign of the times that there was a lot more respect then than there is now.

We used to have a saying that a good copper never got wet, which is why as a young foot plod I was always to be found having a cuppa when it rained as it was not only good PR but it got you talking to the locals who would pass on good information, something I maintained even after I went onto Traffic.

But I guess that coppers of my generation are now considered somewhat of a dinosaur

[Kwackerz]

True TC. I would imagine Policing fo the majority is a wholly different kettle of fish from say 15 years ago, much the same as the state of the traffic on the roads is. Maybe there's too much bad stuf going on on the roads to be able to be lenient and more... humane... Dunno. I suppose some of the coppers 'in the sticks' can afford to maintain the old ways, in the smoke, maybe not so.

[Gio]

A inexperienced riders that had failed to spot a sign, they were each immediately slapped with a £30 fine - especially as the experienced driver in front

How do you know he/she was more experienced?

[Aladinsaneuk]

fact they were driving a car with no l plates may be a clue?

sorry :)

but, even if it was a leaner under instruction then the instructor/co pilot so to speak should be alert to such things - if not a learner, then they have more experience, surely, as they have passed their test...

yeah ok but you know what I mean

[Gio]

fact they were driving a car with no l plates may be a clue?

sorry :)

but, even if it was a leaner under instruction then the instructor/co pilot so to speak should be alert to such things - if not a learner, then they have more experience, surely, as they have passed their test...

yeah ok but you know what I mean

I do, but judging by the quantity of morons driving these days it seems odd.

[D-Rider]

Yes Gio, as Pete surmised, it was a not unreasonable assumption that the lack of L-plates on the car suggested that the driver must have spent some time learning and then passed theory and practical tests to the satisfaction of an examiner - compared with the 2 or 3 months riding around that my lad has done since passing his CBT.

Not absolute proof I'll grant you but for someone to have passed their test it is reasonable to expect a higher standard of driving than of a learner - otherwise why do we bother to warn others of this inexperience by displaying L-plates?

Sam - good points - it can be easy to forget that people in all walks of life can have good days and bad days ..... but I do think that the world we live in places more emphasis on targets and quotas and discretion takes more of a back seat than it once did ..... and TC, I'm all for dinosaurs !

Thanks for opinions everyone - I was interested to find out what others thought.

[Gio]

Yes Gio, as Pete surmised, it was a not unreasonable assumption that the lack of L-plates on the car suggested that the driver must have spent some time learning and then passed theory and practical tests to the satisfaction of an examiner - compared with the 2 or 3 months riding around that my lad has done since passing his CBT.

I know of 3 people who passed their tests in a week from the very 1st time behind the wheel. Now how can that compare with someone on a scooter for 2 or 3 months? I've no idea. IMO passing any form of government road test is simple as long as you have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of eye's as is proven every day on Britains roads.

[D-Rider]

Yes Gio, as Pete surmised, it was a not unreasonable assumption that the lack of L-plates on the car suggested that the driver must have spent some time learning and then passed theory and practical tests to the satisfaction of an examiner - compared with the 2 or 3 months riding around that my lad has done since passing his CBT.

I know of 3 people who passed their tests in a week from the very 1st time behind the wheel. Now how can that compare with someone on a scooter for 2 or 3 months? I've no idea. IMO passing any form of government road test is simple as long as you have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of eye's as is proven every day on Britains roads.

Come on Gio - we're talking assumptions and generalisations here.
You MAY be correct - maybe this was someone who'd just returned from the test centre having only been driving for a week (or, a person who was driving without a full license but not showing L plates). BUT when considering the motoring population, the probability that is the case is tiny.
I think my assumption is realistic - but, as with all assumptions, could be incorrect.

Although too many muppets do pass their driving test, it is not just a formality - it does assess a level of competence. It doesn't do this perfectly as some pass that shouldn't and others that should, fail - but it is a hurdle that suggests a level of competence. Unfortunately, too many think that their learning ends the day they pass their test .....

[Gio]

Yes Gio, as Pete surmised, it was a not unreasonable assumption that the lack of L-plates on the car suggested that the driver must have spent some time learning and then passed theory and practical tests to the satisfaction of an examiner - compared with the 2 or 3 months riding around that my lad has done since passing his CBT.

I know of 3 people who passed their tests in a week from the very 1st time behind the wheel. Now how can that compare with someone on a scooter for 2 or 3 months? I've no idea. IMO passing any form of government road test is simple as long as you have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of eye's as is proven every day on Britains roads.

Come on Gio - we're talking assumptions and generalisations here.
You MAY be correct - maybe this was someone who'd just returned from the test centre having only been driving for a week (or, a person who was driving without a full license but not showing L plates). BUT when considering the motoring population, the probability that is the case is tiny.
I think my assumption is realistic - but, as with all assumptions, could be incorrect.

Although too many muppets do pass their driving test, it is not just a formality - it does assess a level of competence. It doesn't do this perfectly as some pass that shouldn't and others that should, fail - but it is a hurdle that suggests a level of competence. Unfortunately, too many think that their learning ends the day they pass their test .....

Ah yes "assumptions" and "generalisations", they normally show up

I have a lot of sympathy for your son and his friend as I've had pretty much the same happen to me, mine was however speeding (exceeding 60mph in a goods vehicle) I remonstrated with Hampshire plod to no avail, they let sainsbury and tesco lorries go thundering past me.