Clutchless gear changes

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katie1
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Clutchless gear changes

#1 Post by katie1 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:04 pm

The kind of title that makes me sound fairly hardcore but, in reality, what I've had to do for most of my 130 round trip today!
Not sure if this is just a coincidence but after a trip out yesterday, topped up the oil. Still seems to be below minimum after adding 3/4 litre but as of this morning I have almost no clutch! Bike pulls even with the clutch pulled fully in and I had some interesting gear changes, especially going through rush-hour Watford...

So, questions. Is it coincidence and the clutch slave seals have given up, big time, straight after filling up with oil or have I committed the classic Aprilia 'too much oil' error? :smt017
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#2 Post by old git » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:56 am

sounds more like you have got air in the clutch system.
Too much oil would usually blow into the airbox ( often noted on several bikes) but not sure if you had sooo much as 3/4L too much.
I would check the oil level correctly and bleed the clutch system, have a look in the resevoir could be as simple as the level is too low ( theres not much in there to start with) and you have let air in.
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#3 Post by fatboy » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:31 pm

Havingrepaired and replaced a few slave cylinders, they usually give you warning signs, diminishing fluid level and clutch performance, tell tale fluid dribbles below the cylinder...usuallly !
as OG pointed out it is all too easy tolet the level of fluid drop enough too allow air in, a bit of woohoo wayhay cornering with low fluid levels can do that
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#4 Post by katie1 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:27 pm

Thanks chaps, will check the fluid levels at the weekend and see if that's the problem.

In the meantime, the VFR is meeting my woohoowayhaying needs :smt003
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#5 Post by katie1 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:50 pm

Ok, just checked in my garage and can only find Dot 4. It's compatible with Dot 5.1 but the manual states Dot 5. I'm guessing it's probably had 5 in if that's the Aprilia standard but does anyone use anything else?
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#6 Post by fatboy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:40 pm

I would have no concerns at all about dropping to DOT 4 on the clutch, both are compatible.
I actually use DOT4 in the clutch abd DOT5.1 in the stoppers.
This is because of price and convenience, DOT 4 was in all of the hydraulilics when my bike left the factory, 5.1 is better hence my use of it in the stoppers, DOT 4 runs the brakes on the car which weighs a fair bit more than the bike !
Unless you are a stunt rider your clutch will never need to work as hard as your brakes
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#7 Post by D-Rider » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:04 pm

katie1 wrote:Ok, just checked in my garage and can only find Dot 4. It's compatible with Dot 5.1 but the manual states Dot 5. I'm guessing it's probably had 5 in if that's the Aprilia standard but does anyone use anything else?
Hi Katie, The stuff you DON'T want to put in there is DOT 5.
That is incompatible wit DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 - it's a different chemistry and if there are traces of DOT 4 or 5.1 in there, it will go all gungy.

The manual is confusing as the DOT 5 it mentions has the additional comment DOT 4 compatible ..... which is DOT 5.1.

So yes, DOT 5.1 or DOT 4.
DOT 4 is quite adequate, more readily available and cheaper .... so probably DOT 4 is the one to go for.
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#8 Post by katie1 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:52 am

D-Rider wrote:
The manual is confusing as the DOT 5 it mentions has the additional comment DOT 4 compatible ..... which is DOT 5.1.
Aaah, that's the bit that confused me! So I should be able to top up with the Dot 4 :smt001
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#9 Post by D-Rider » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:59 pm

katie1 wrote:
D-Rider wrote:
The manual is confusing as the DOT 5 it mentions has the additional comment DOT 4 compatible ..... which is DOT 5.1.
Aaah, that's the bit that confused me! So I should be able to top up with the Dot 4 :smt001
Yes - no problem
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#10 Post by katie1 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:54 pm

Well, have got the bike booked in for a service next week so never bothered trying to bleed the clutch. Thought I'd give the battery a bit of charge after sitting for a fortnight.
No problem there but tried to move the bike when running and that was NOT happening!
Clutch failure is complete and it was an instant stall as soon as it got into gear. So, on with the bleeding business thought I.

Got the fairing off (much easier than the VFR) but couldn't see the clutch slave. Surely it's not behind the rectifier? Oh yes it is! :smt009

Half an hour of turning the two hidden allen screws 1/10 of a turn at a time later, I realised that there was a third bugger hiding in the middle. :smt013

At this point I remembered I have 'At Home' breakdown recovery so put everything back in place and will be calling them Tuesday to come and take the bike straight to the garage for me... :smt006

On a side note, is there some kind of magic tool to get those ridiculous bolts out or will an allen key socket (not in my toolbox yet) do the job?
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#11 Post by fatboy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:02 pm

A set of 'ball ended' hex keys is as close to magic as you will get, you can use them at between 20 to 30 degrees offset from the hex socket BUT you will have to use the straight hex end to release the initial torque as the chamfered ball end will shear under too much load
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#12 Post by mangocrazy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:19 pm

I can whole-heartedly recommend this set. Top quality tools, held in a very well thought out retainer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FACOM-9-PIEC ... 3745227487

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#13 Post by katie1 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:45 am

Thanks chaps.

Slight update. Having pre-ordered the stunningly expensive clutch slave seal (£24 inc p+p was the cheapest!), it turned out there was already an aftermarket slave cylinder in place so the seal was pointless!
Anyway, the slave had failed (can't remember the make, they don't exist anymore) so had to get an Oberon ordered quickly.

All now fixed, bike serviced and ready for the daily punishment of London commuting :smt003
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#14 Post by fatboy » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:46 pm

Sod's Law always applies !
Good to hear you are up and running again :smt003
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