The last king bearing?

Message

KitchenSync · #1 Post by **KitchenSync** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:48 pm

Parked outside my friend's house on Friday, which happens to.be opposite Ultimate Parts (very convenient for cups of tea and Aprilia parts collection). Martyn was just locking up and thought I might be there to get something and we had a chat. A good chap and a Futura owner too. He told me to look after my king bearing as he just sold the last one! Not sure if he meant THE last one... but he's like Indian Jones for finding obsolete parts so you can be pretty sure there aren't many out there any more.

He has got.some fairing panels in stock and just picked up a ton of Falco parts from Aprilia who were having a clear out.

fatboy · #2 Post by **fatboy** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:24 pm

I dont know what the king hell a king bearing is but it sounds like it needs looking after !
Would be really very handy if Martyn Ultimate Parts could be persuaded to divulge what he got in the clear out .....

D-Rider · #3 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:36 pm

There are places that still advertise them (at an exorbitant price) but whether they can actually get them, I've no idea.
I think there are ways to deal with the bearing itself (2 bearings sleeved to fit side by side) but that still leaves the speed sensor to be sorted ......

KitchenSync · #4 Post by **KitchenSync** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:13 am

fatboy wrote:I dont know what the king hell a king bearing is but it sounds like it needs looking after !
Would be really very handy if Martyn Ultimate Parts could be persuaded to divulge what he got in the clear out .....

It's what the (single sided swinger) rear wheel spins on... two bearings with the speedo sensor magnets moulded in to the seal in between. A one off part for the Futura although the bearings are a stock size, a hack would mean losing the sensor. The were selling for £450+ but Martyn was shifting them for around half that but they're gone now. I've not actually had my rear wheel off yet to see what lies within.

I'm heading to Ultimate Parts now on the bus as I thought I had a short filter on the Fut but turns out it's a long one - I'll ask him about the Falco parts and post them up for the gang.

I do miss my Falco!! I turned up on the FB group a few months back - utter ruined and ringed so on an 'authentic' plate. Marcus Wescott is the new keeper and fixing it up. I'm not on FB any more so don't know how it's going.

D-Rider · #5 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:30 pm

KitchenSync wrote:The were selling for £450+ but Martyn was shifting them for around half that but they're gone now.

Doh! If only I'd known!

blinkey501 · #6 Post by **blinkey501** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:50 am

I have a spare. So I'm sorted.

D-Rider · #7 Post by **D-Rider** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:25 am

blinkey501 wrote:I have a spare. So I'm sorted.

..... you can really go off people

TBH the concern over the lack of a spare king bearing is the biggest thing stopping me spending much on improving the Fut.
That doesn't mean I have no plans but I worry that it'll all go pear-shaped if the bearing gives up.

fatboy · #8 Post by **fatboy** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:29 pm

D-Rider wrote:
blinkey501 wrote:I have a spare. So I'm sorted.
..... you can really go off people

TBH the concern over the lack of a spare king bearing is the biggest thing stopping me spending much on improving the Fut.
That doesn't mean I have no plans but I worry that it'll all go pear-shaped if the bearing gives up.

Perhaps you need to cast your nets further than our bonny shores.
Are Futs popular in the good ol' US of A ?
All the parts are available over there for the home mechanic to repair a Falc water pump but alas over here you can buy the parts but need access to an engineering shop to assemble the parts

D-Rider · #9 Post by **D-Rider** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:42 pm

fatboy wrote:
D-Rider wrote:
blinkey501 wrote:I have a spare. So I'm sorted.
..... you can really go off people

TBH the concern over the lack of a spare king bearing is the biggest thing stopping me spending much on improving the Fut.
That doesn't mean I have no plans but I worry that it'll all go pear-shaped if the bearing gives up.
Perhaps you need to cast your nets further than our bonny shores.
Are Futs popular in the good ol' US of A ?
All the parts are available over there for the home mechanic to repair a Falc water pump but alas over here you can buy the parts but need access to an engineering shop to assemble the parts

I have been looking worldwide .... and I do know where there is one.
Ridiculous price but may be that I need to dig very deep.
Need to work out how to avoid import duty at very least.

#10 Post by **mangocrazy** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:49 pm

This may sound heretical, but could there not be a possibility of replacing the Fut single sider with a conventional swingarm from a Falco (or even a Mille) and avoid the King bearing problem altogether? Or would that require a total redesign of the back end of the bike and the exhaust system?

Ignorance is a wonderful starting point when trying to solve problems.

Perhaps...

flatlander · #11 Post by **flatlander** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:41 pm

I had my last ring bearing seriously probed the other week I bet it felt worse than having trouble finding spare parts especially as I'm not sure that one can be replaced 😨

D-Rider · #12 Post by **D-Rider** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:59 am

mangocrazy wrote:This may sound heretical, but could there not be a possibility of replacing the Fut single sider with a conventional swingarm from a Falco (or even a Mille) and avoid the King bearing problem altogether? Or would that require a total redesign of the back end of the bike and the exhaust system?

Ignorance is a wonderful starting point when trying to solve problems.

Perhaps...

It's not those things that concern me so much but the fact that the instrument pack would also need changing.
The only reason the Futura king bearing is so crucial is that it incorporates the encoder for the speed sensor - and it produces way more pulses per revolution than the Falco/Mille. Maybe you could build a multiplier unit to upscale the Falco signal output - but that would not be easy. The alternative would be to fit a Falco instrument pack ... but it is very different to the Futura one.
I really wouldn't want to go down that route.

What I am considering is obtaining an old, knackered king bearing, opening it up to see how the encoder is mounted and seeing whether old encoders could be grafted in to an assembly of (standard) new bearings. Suitable bearings are available to press into a sleeve but not sure about the encoder.

I even know the SKF part number of the proper King Bearing but apparently they are contracted to only sell this to Aprilia as it's a special for Aprilia.

fatboy · #13 Post by **fatboy** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:38 pm

You've done some home work then !

#14 Post by **mangocrazy** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:11 pm

The Fut really was a one-off, then. Aprilia did a fair bit of mix and match with Mille and Falco, but it seems they really wanted the Fut to be out there on its own. What they did with the king bearing and speedo encoder beggars belief. You need a tame electronics expert, I think...

So what I thought would be the major problem (the exhaust) is solvable, then?

D-Rider · #15 Post by **D-Rider** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:39 am

mangocrazy wrote:The Fut really was a one-off, then. Aprilia did a fair bit of mix and match with Mille and Falco, but it seems they really wanted the Fut to be out there on its own. What they did with the king bearing and speedo encoder beggars belief.

The instrument pack is closer to that of the Caponord ..... but not the same. I understand that the speed pulse count is different.
...... now you've got me thinking ...... it seems that the Capo uses the same type of speed sensor working off the rear disc bolts as the majority of Aprilias.
I wonder what the full list of differences are between the Capo Instruments and the Fut? Could it be that swapping to a Capo instrument pack would allow a conventional speed sensor setup? Could a conventional speed sensor be persuaded to fit the Fut's calliper mount?
Hmmm a lot to explore ... and regrettably no time to do so.

mangocrazy wrote:You need a tame electronics expert, I think...

I'd look at it if I had time - too many plates spinning at the moment

mangocrazy wrote: So what I thought would be the major problem (the exhaust) is solvable, then?

No idea how difficult that would be - too many other big issues to solve to worry too much. That said, it's only a bit of bent tube ......