Troublesome tuono

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blinkey501
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Troublesome tuono

#1 Post by blinkey501 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:30 am

I have a tuono that I have been looking at.

Work done incudes general servicing, and a sprag clutch change.

I am not sure if there was an issue with the bike apart from the sprag when it arrived?

Been out on it this morning after completing work yesterday, and the bike pulls so well up to 7000 rpm and just won't go anymore?

As soon as you are into the next gear the bike pulls again, but again when at 7000 revs it bogs down?

Any idea's ? :smt017
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#2 Post by D-Rider » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:54 am

This is "bogs down" (fuel type of thing) rather than ignition cuts (ignition system/limiter type of effect) then?

I guess if you can be fairly sure which, it takes us down different paths.
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#3 Post by blinkey501 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:39 pm

D-Rider wrote:This is "bogs down" (fuel type of thing) rather than ignition cuts (ignition system/limiter type of effect) then?

I guess if you can be fairly sure which, it takes us down different paths.
I guess realistically I am not to sure Andy.

I took the air filter out as it was like it was restricted on breathing?

An other thing I will say is that the bike had been to a garage, and due to lack of knowledge they bent the stator fly wheel?

This rubbed off the protective coating of the stator itself, causing a short when the flywheel touched....

I will start at the beginning.....

I was rang by J and S at doncaster as the owner had tried to take this bike was taken in as a part exchange.

Doncaster motorcycles had changed the sprag, but the cam chain tensioners were not filling up with oil?

They had also charged for an oil change and a new oil filter.

I drained the oil, but on checking the filter the date had been scratched on the side?

The date was two years old? I informed the owner of this....

Oil and filter was changed, and the correct amount of oil was added to the tank.

The bike started, and the cam chain tensioners filled with oil.

DMS had not put enough oil in the engine....

The bike ran but stopped?

I was puzzled why. I checked everything electrically, and decided to check out the stator and sprag, due to the work they had completed.

It looked like DMS had tried to remove the stator flywheel by hammering a pry bar down the back?

This bent the fly wheel, and rubbed off the protective coating on the stator. This had caused the short, and stopped the engine from running.

The owner was shown pictures to the extent of the damage?

He decided that because he wanted to sell the bike on, against my better judgement I fitted a straight stator flywheel, but not a new stator.

The bike ran ok, and started almost immediately.

I informed the owner that the work had been completed, but needed his permission to take the bike out for a test ride?

Then the problem then came to light.

We need a wall of shame advising our members of poor workmanship and who to avoid In my opinion......

I have a friend in Doncaster, and contacted her in regards to Dms.

She is training as a motorcycle mechanic, and had been working on an ER5?

This had been to Dms, and they had charged for work including a service, chains and sprockets.

The bill came to nearly 800 quid????????

Paula had to go through the bike, and jobs that had been charged for had not been completed by Dms....

They seriously fooked the tuono up!!



:smt017 :smt018 :smt018
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#4 Post by D-Rider » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:55 pm

Well that sounds a right catalogue of disasters.

I can see that it's not an easy one with the bike in front of you - so don't hope for too much from those of us at the end of a keyboard!

Another question as I ponder .... does it rev past 7k when stationary - ie when there is no load?
Similarly, does the "bogging down" point differ when going uphill / downhill - ie is this predominantly load related, revs related or a bit of a cheeky combo?
“Scientists investigate that which already is. Engineers create that which has never been.”
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#5 Post by blinkey501 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:43 pm

D-Rider wrote:Well that sounds a right catalogue of disasters.

I can see that it's not an easy one with the bike in front of you - so don't hope for too much from those of us at the end of a keyboard!

Another question as I ponder .... does it rev past 7k when stationary - ie when there is no load?
Similarly, does the "bogging down" point differ when going uphill / downhill - ie is this predominantly load related, revs related or a bit of a cheeky combo?
It revs ok when stationary.

When under load on the flat it just won't pull.

We have no big hill around here?

:smt017
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#6 Post by D-Rider » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:19 pm

Sounds Load related (with a revs element).
Is the tank venting OK? If not you may be getting some fuel starvation when it's sucking hard.
Also, I guess air leaks in the induction paths could make it too weak and starved of that which it needs.

Of course it might not be those things but worth ruling them out.
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#7 Post by blinkey501 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:51 pm

D-Rider wrote:Sounds Load related (with a revs element).
Is the tank venting OK? If not you may be getting some fuel starvation when it's sucking hard.
Also, I guess air leaks in the induction paths could make it too weak and starved of that which it needs.

Of course it might not be those things but worth ruling them out.
Tank is up and top half of air box off.

Feed up with it today, will have a look in morning.

Thanks for the tips...... :smt002
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#8 Post by HisNibbs » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:05 pm

Ok Granny Jay how's your egg sucking?

Low Fuel pressure?
Weak spark?
Timing spark and or cam if some one's done a valve shim?
Lack of compression?

Can you test the above or compare to another
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#9 Post by blinkey501 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:04 pm

HisNibbs wrote:Ok Granny Jay how's your egg sucking?

Low Fuel pressure?
Weak spark?
Timing spark and or cam if some one's done a valve shim?
Lack of compression?

Can you test the above or compare to another
Egg sucking not too good.

Tbh fed up of the bloody thing mate. :smt012

The list of jobs I have had to do on this thing is unreal!!!! :smt068

If this bike had have been mine, and it was my first aprilia....... It would have been my last!!!!!!! :smt104
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#10 Post by Dalemac » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:27 am

Can you get a video of it happening via helmet cam or something?

Could be a coil/lead/cap that is functioning ok at low load but not at high load?

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#11 Post by HisNibbs » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:51 am

Dalemac wrote:Can you get a video of it happening via helmet cam or something?

Could be a coil/lead/cap that is functioning ok at low load but not at high load?
I assumed it'd be a twin plug head. So unless these went together on both plugs to a head which is unlikely, I'd doubt these'd be that noticable. However on a single plug head that's a different case.
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#12 Post by Wally » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:20 pm

I would go with HisNubbs regarding cam timing, if some one's done a valve shim badly and especially as the chain tensioners were not filling with oil.

I have come across several cars and bikes where they pull very well low down the revs but will not rev out without hitting a brick wall and have had the valve timing out a tooth. Don.t know how far out these can be out without touching valves/pistons.

It would certainly be my next check to be done

Wally

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#13 Post by Dalemac » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:50 pm

HisNibbs wrote:
Dalemac wrote:Can you get a video of it happening via helmet cam or something?

Could be a coil/lead/cap that is functioning ok at low load but not at high load?
I assumed it'd be a twin plug head. So unless these went together on both plugs to a head which is unlikely, I'd doubt these'd be that noticable. However on a single plug head that's a different case.
Yes but if a coil is on its way out, It will cause revving issues when under load at normal use. Rmember that each cylinder has 1 coil. Dropping onto one cylinder is going to give the impression of refusing to rev.

TBH there is too much history with this bike, and without seeing/hearing it it's going to be almost impossible to tell (hence suggestion of filming the problem).

Best bet is probably to call the mastermind that is Griff.

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#14 Post by D-Rider » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:06 pm

Dalemac wrote:
HisNibbs wrote:
Dalemac wrote:Can you get a video of it happening via helmet cam or something?

Could be a coil/lead/cap that is functioning ok at low load but not at high load?
I assumed it'd be a twin plug head. So unless these went together on both plugs to a head which is unlikely, I'd doubt these'd be that noticable. However on a single plug head that's a different case.
Rmember that each cylinder has 1 coil.
ummm .... well each cylinder does have one coil ..... but each cylinder also has another one as well.
The Falco has 4 coils - one per plug.
2 are mounted below the air box on the RHS and 2 are mounted on the rear sub frame on the LHS.
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#15 Post by Dalemac » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:41 pm

Oh. Didn't realise the packs contained seperate coils for each spark plug.

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