didn't take long

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davebms · #1 Post by **davebms** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:13 pm

hello all , got out for a short ride to-day , roads looked ok (there not as good as i thought !) bikes running well , but i'm still not impressed with the brakes.. and the suspension feels tired, so up on abba stand remove rear shock and front forks only took 1hour 30 mins !! it will take longer than that to work out what to do with them

dave

#2 Post by **mangocrazy** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:45 pm

Hi Dave. OK - time for 20 questions...

What shock do you have?
How many miles do the shock and forks have on them?
Has the oil ever been changed in the forks?
What brake hoses do you have on the bike?
What pads are fitted and how much meat is there left on them?
How much money do you have to spend?

davebms · #3 Post by **davebms** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:36 pm

mangocrazy wrote:Hi Dave. OK - time for 20 questions...

What shock do you have?
How many miles do the shock and forks have on them?
Has the oil ever been changed in the forks?
What brake hoses do you have on the bike?
What pads are fitted and how much meat is there left on them?
How much money do you have to spend?

falco fit ohlins rear
showa front
both have never been serviced !! 8000mls
hell lines ,ebc hh pads new(pads bedded in and de glazed)

Ive had suspension re sprung/valved before and found it well worth the money, but it was years ago, so will have to phone around to get up-to-date prices !!

the brakes not sure, i have some 4 pad calipers .they will need new lines
so if fitting new lines would an adjustable ratio master cylinder be worth a look at (so only one set of new lines) it feels as though the pads do not bite on the disc ..possible when they assembled it they put a cost effective disc on them
money ? depends. gold card has space on it

flatlander · #4 Post by **flatlander** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:34 am

money ? depends. gold card has space on it

That won't last long then lol

#5 Post by **mangocrazy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:43 pm

It's purely a personal recommendation (and others may have different opinions), but if the suspension is feeling tired then an overhaul is indicated. I'd parcel the shock and forks up and send it off to someone like John at Revs Racing with a request to give it a damn good service. If it feels too soft/squishy/harsh/bouncy/rigid/floaty/dead etc., tell him that and try to explain your preferences as best you can.

On the braking side, if you have 4-pad calipers they are supposed to sharpen the braking up a fair bit. But they do need different brake lines, as the take-off points are different. You might also keep an eye open for a radial brake master cylinder, as fitted to later Milles and Tuonos. It won't make the brakes any more powerful but should improve the feel and modulation at the lever. The aftermarket Brembo items are lovely kit, but horribly expensive. With the aftermarket kit, you'll need to specify the lever ratio you want.

If you really want to get serious, then change the disc rotor material as well. But this is getting pricey... I'm a big fan of PFM ductile iron discs. All OE braking systems are stainless, which is not the best disc material (but it doesn't rust and stays nice and shiny). DI is much better, but it does need specific pad compounds. EBC HH sintered pads will score a DI rotor badly, very quickly. Use organic compounds with DI rotors. Here's PFM's website:

http://www.thestopshop.co.uk/

It's a personal thing, but I really wouldn't bother with wavey discs. They may look trick, but they don't improve braking and just wear pads out more quickly. IMHO, of course.

Hope this helps...

davebms · #6 Post by **davebms** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:48 pm

well so far all planes have failed !!, the people who do suspension
are all on holiday

the only good news ,ive found me 4 pad calipers .and with soms alloy wheel cleaner they are looking good
(gold card still in tact)

Aladinsaneuk · #7 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:51 pm

Wait till new year to sort it mate

Most Places are closed till then

davebms · #8 Post by **davebms** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:19 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:Wait till new year to sort it mate

Most Places are closed till then

well ,,its not a problem, i'm just curious to find out how DEEP the water is.
besides that ,,if im at work ,with peaple filling in the wall chart (this is our first race, he needs 2 spare engines that ones got to be done by 7th that one picket up 3rd week jan .......... WHY aint they at work

dave

#9 Post by **mangocrazy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:12 pm

It's one of those things... I was talking to John a couple of weeks ago (he was servicing my Ohlins shock) and he said that normally it's dead up until Xmas, then it goes mental in the New Year.

Which is why I always try to get my suspension stuff into Revs during December...

They (like the rest of the world) are having a well earned rest over Chrimbo before it all goes bonkers on Jan 2nd (or 3rd, this year)...

With VAT and carriage, John did a re-valve on my Ohlins for £105. Mention you're part of the Falco Massive and mention Ridersite and it might help. But if he's rushed off his feet, it probably won't...

davebms · #10 Post by **davebms** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:53 pm

sorry mangocrazy i mist your first reply (lap top at work is crap!!)

re suspension, post them off are my thoughts , i was hoping to get a gestimate price to see how many £££ i may have left for brakes
Ive had iron discs before and found them a pita if not used all the time (tend to rust and glaze up) wavy things no .... i may be able to get a deal on brembo discs they do an uprated set
yes i will need new lines , that's why i was thinking about master cyl
ie if they are diff at the top that will be 2 sets of lines scrap !!
i thought that brenbo did an adjustable ratio cyl ? but at £300 that may be a bridge to fare

dave

#11 Post by **mangocrazy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:55 pm

Yes, if you're going to change lines make sure you do all your brake mods at once... I've got a set of 4-pad calipers and a radial m/cyl ready to go on and am changing the whole lot over in one go; m/cyl, lines and calipers. That way I can keep the previous m/cyl, lines and calipers as a complete system ready to change back if needs be (can't think why I'd want to do it, but...)

Yeah, the Brembo adjustable m/cyl is well tasty but at £300 it should be... I think they have a range, like 18/20 or 16/18 but not sure. Out of my price range, really.

I've never had glazing problems with iron discs. If they get rusty the first proper application of the brakes cleans it off. It's a personal thing, but I fit PFM DI discs to every bike I have if I think I'll be keeping it for any length of time (and the Falco is a keeper...)

The radial m/cyl has the outlet underneath the m/cyl body, so it means a whole new set of lines, unless you buy an adaptor. They used to be available on eBay - not sure if they still are. Just checked - this looks to be the job:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BREMBO-BLACK- ... 1e6850eac9

D-Rider · #12 Post by **D-Rider** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:34 am

I've changed to a Brembo racing radial master cylinder, Hel lines and 4-pad callipers. They improved things a little bit but not hugely. The standard setup is pretty damned good.
Mine lost a bit of feel over time but after cleaning the calliper pistons properly and changing the fluid, they were pretty top-notch again. I think the fact I'd recently serviced them is probably why the 4-pad / radial M/C setup wasn't the big improvement that some others have reported. I think a lot of them may have compared a crudded up old system with a nice clean upgrade.

davebms · #13 Post by **davebms** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:21 pm

D-Rider wrote:I've changed to a Brembo racing radial master cylinder, Hel lines and 4-pad callipers. They improved things a little bit but not hugely. The standard setup is pretty damned good.
Mine lost a bit of feel over time but after cleaning the calliper pistons properly and changing the fluid, they were pretty top-notch again. I think the fact I'd recently serviced them is probably why the 4-pad / radial M/C setup wasn't the big improvement that some others have reported. I think a lot of them may have compared a crudded up old system with a nice clean upgrade.

well that's the snag !! most here say brakes are good, i met griff at the nec, he said they should be ok... ive striped and cleaned calipers, hell lines ,cleaned discs buttons etc no, you can stop it but its not inspirational
95 speed trip.. brakes
2002 speed trip.. brakes
94 urban tiger..brakes
2005 speed trip.. really brakes
2009 brutale .. really brakes

poss my discs are not the real thing ? poss they have bean contaminated
with previous crap pads ? as its in bits ive just been and have a look they has been getting hot!! but all normal wear and tear nuffin od at all

for the teck heads . standard , 2 pistons at 34 and 2 at 30
4 pad 4off at 34 so that should give more clamping force

dave

#14 Post by **mangocrazy** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:13 pm

I'm guessing the 2009 Brutale (and possibly the 2005 Speed Triple) both had radial calipers? They do tend to give a more aggressive and stronger feel. Unless you're prepared to spend a LOT of money on forks with radial brake fitments, and radial calipers to suit, then I doubt you'll ever quite get to those levels with the Falco.

It might be an idea to get the rotors skimmed and start afresh with a new set of pads. That way you're removing all the old pad crap and getting down to new metal.

Alternatively if you're interested I've got a pair of stainless OE rotors (no carriers or buttons) that I removed to fit a set of PFM rotors. They've only done running-in mileage (about 500 miles) and still have the cross-hatching marks on them. They're doing nothing in my attic and they're yours for £50 plus postage if you're interested.

davebms · #15 Post by **davebms** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:22 pm

mangocrazy wrote:I'm guessing the 2009 Brutale (and possibly the 2005 Speed Triple) both had radial calipers? They do tend to give a more aggressive and stronger feel. Unless you're prepared to spend a LOT of money on forks with radial brake fitments, and radial calipers to suit, then I doubt you'll ever quite get to those levels with the Falco.

It might be an idea to get the rotors skimmed and start afresh with a new set of pads. That way you're removing all the old pad crap and getting down to new metal.

Alternatively if you're interested I've got a pair of stainless OE rotors (no carriers or buttons) that I removed to fit a set of PFM rotors. They've only done running-in mileage (about 500 miles) and still have the cross-hatching marks on them. They're doing nothing in my attic and they're yours for £50 plus postage if you're interested.

well yes they have radials , BUT Ive ridden lots of others that aren't and most (not all) are better than Ive got . i'm intrigued by your comment (OE removed to fit PFM rotors) looked at web site shows ,rotors carriers and a clip , can PFM be fitted to my existing carriers ? (that would cut down cost)
thank for the offer on OE rotors, will have a think thanks

dave