Shock dilema!

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blinkey501 · #1 Post by **blinkey501** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:09 pm

I bought a mille shock tringles and dog bone from splatrat off AF1 early this year in excellent condition which i have fitted without a service and i am very pleased with the ride and performance of the unit. The shock was supplied with the mille triangle and dog bones according to him and i have no reason why not to believe him............

I have just purchaced another mille shock off aladinsane which will need a little work but i am again happy with what i have bought. he has supplied what he also thought was the correct dog bones and triangles.

I still have the blue shock and triangles and i noticed that with comparison what alad had, was a set of triangles and dog bone off a blue shock.

This is where things get interesting ... The falco triagle is an equalterall triangle, where the mille one is unequal by a significant amount but...the length of the dog bones are different lengths and when offered up togeather fully assembled the two top mounting holes are in the same position and even though the dog bones are different lengths the dog bone mountings line up at the opposite end to the triangle mounting point.

In other words the hole positions remain the same. Alad has assured me that his falco handled superb with the falco tringles and dog bone fitted with the mille shock.

That got me wondering with what i have discovered... Does it matter about the linkages after all when fittng a mille shock.

Is there a gen1 mille rider on the forum willing to help with a bit of an experiment to clarify the hole position of the mille triangles and dog bone length to identify which is the mille set up?

On a final note to further the experiment alad has yet another set of tringles and i think another dog bone and has offered to send them up on a return basis to see if everything lines up has the other two do.

I hope all this makes sence...

FalcoJock · #2 Post by **FalcoJock** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:42 pm

I'm sure you will get the full explanation that your question deserves from the experts on this site, but I understand that the early Mille shock is a straight fit using the Falco parts. I certainly just had the shock only swapped for a reconditioned early Mille shock. But I think the later ones require the Mille parts to fit a Falco.

It might be that although the holes line up, the different shape means the shock action on compression / expansion will be different depending on the linkage used.

blinkey501 · #3 Post by **blinkey501** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:07 pm

Yes i see what you mean, i am also thinking of measuring the mounting points on the ohlins and the blue shock top and bottom...
If a falco linkage is good enough for the blue shock, apart from the height altereations that might be incurred using an ohlins then surely the falco linkages should be adequate for the shock change

In my mind i cannot see any problems with doing it this way, and struggling to find the illusive triangles and dog bone off a mille

D-Rider · #4 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:41 pm

Which Mille shocks are you talking about?

Sorry to reiterate but in case there is anyone who has somehow missed out on the info ....

In summary the following shocks share the same linkages:

* Falco Blue Spring Sachs
* Mille White Spring Sachs
* MilleR Ohlins from same years for which the Mille had the White Spring Sachs

These have the almost equilateral triangles and the shorter dog bone .... as was OE fit on every Falco ever made.

The other shocks fitted to pre-'04 bikes form the other group and share another set of linkages:

* Mille Yellow Spring Sachs
* MilleR Ohlins from same years for which the Mille had the Yellow Spring Sachs

These have the roughly Isosceles Triangles and longer dog bone.
The triangles actually come in 2 flavours (both the same shape. One variety is made from 4mm thick mild steel and the other variety from 6mm thick ally - with bolts of appropriate lengths for each.

Oh yes, of course the equivalent Tuonos up to 2005 are also donors of shocks and linkages - reflecting the Mille they were adapted from.

RSVRs and RSVR Factorys from 2004 (plus corresponding Tuonos) have a different shock and linkages. Received wisdom was that they wouldn't work but I have seen some suggestion they might. That said, I'll stick with what I know and go for shocks and linkages from the earlier bikes.

Also, to clarify, the ratios of the lengths of the triangle sides determine how far the shock moves for any movement of the rear wheel. Within limits this can be accommodated IF the spring rates and damping is set to compensate .... but other than Mango, I don't know anyone who has gone down this route.

blinkey501 · #5 Post by **blinkey501** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:26 pm

Its the yellow ohlins andy, Pete bought it from the falconhilist and the triangles and dog bone came with it.
Has a twist i tried to fit flatlanders shock and i noticed the triangles were different to my mille triangles and so didnt proceed.
Geoff(flatlander) contacted the person who sold him the ohlins and yet again....
The third party said the same that he had fitted the ohlins with the falco linkages.

I can get a set of triangles water cut and a dog bone the same has the mille set up also so no real issues.
But forgive me for my ignorance, The falco did at one point have the option of fitting a falco specific ohlins shock?
I do believe the falco specific ohlins did use the falco linkages.
Is the falco specific ohlins and mille shock worlds apart?
I was awfully tempted to fit the mille ohlins with the falco linkages to the oasis and see of issues if any

Would you advise against this idea and get a set water cut?
Thanks for your help
Finally my rule of thought is... With the standard linkages and an ohlins the bike has to ride a lot nicer than with the awfull blue standard shock

Aladinsaneuk · #6 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:30 pm

i think, and am dredging my memory here, it is one of the very early mille r shocks

#7 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:46 pm

To sort out what you have in the suspenders department, may I refer Sir to this illuminating entry...

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... stcount=13

also, this post gives dimensions:

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... stcount=17

Once you've sorted out what triangles and dogbones you're using, we'll start talking about spring rates...

D-Rider · #8 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:51 pm

The Falco specific Ohlins was not an option part but an aftermarket shock sold by Ohlins for the Falco.

Whereas the Mille Ohlins reservoir cannister lies horizontally, the Falco specific one lies vertically.

The big draw-back of the Ohlins aftermarket Falco shock is that it doesn't have ride-height adjustment.

#9 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:59 pm

blinkey501 wrote:I was awfully tempted to fit the mille ohlins with the falco linkages to the oasis and see of issues if any
Would you advise against this idea and get a set water cut?

If you do that you will have a very soggy rear

Seriously, the spring on an 01-03 Mille shock will work poorly with Falco linkages. It will be Gold Wing-style plush, and will handle like a cruiser. OK, I'm probably exaggerating a bit, but it will be a major difference from what you're used to.

Hell, you may even like it...

Aladinsaneuk · #10 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:13 pm

actually mango - what we think we have is an ohlins from the original mille r - around 1998/9 model - NOT the later one where the ohlins was an upgrade from the yellow spring ohlins....

9They are very scarce... as andy said earlier, they used the same linkages

having just had a chat with Jay - blinky501, he is likely to compare the later ohlins he has with the earlier one he got from me

I think, and am going from memory, he will notice a couple of differences - iirc, the lock nut is a different colour, and i think the girth of the shock is actually different....

****

either way, i think we may have an interesting conundrum - and possibly a few bits added to the falco knowledge base.....

D-Rider · #11 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:15 pm

The spring rate printed on the spring will give a good clue

blinkey501 · #12 Post by **blinkey501** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:16 pm

Thanks pete

Aladinsaneuk · #13 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:22 pm

that would mean cleaning it andy....

thank god I have sold it before committing heresy

#14 Post by **mangocrazy** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:32 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:actually mango - what we think we have is an ohlins from the original mille r - around 1998/9 model - NOT the later one where the ohlins was an upgrade from the yellow spring ohlins....

Interesting stuff - if so there can't be too many of those around.

If you can still read the spring code then post it up as I have a chart which decodes them, somewhere in the bowels of my PC. If we can establish the spring rate we'll know for sure which linkages are the right ones for it...

If not, then there are two ways to find out if it is really an early Mille Ohlins:

1. Fit it and take it for a ride. If it's as soggy as a very soggy thing, it's from a later Mille. If all feels good, you have a rare example of an Ohlins which is a straight bolt on to the Falco.

2. Take the spring off and take it to a suspension chap who has a machine that tells you what rate a spring is. Seriously.

Aladinsaneuk · #15 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:47 pm

it came off my falco.... so i know - as do a few others who have ridden it - it rides well...