Electical Issues part trois

[Falco9]

I'm now almost at the end of my tether.............Gave the Falco a wash and brush up today as I was planning on going to see Ben race his Falco at Harewood hill climb tomorrow. Came to start her up and.............yes you've guessed it the starter relay issue has reared its ugly head once again. The bike has run faultlessly for the last few weeks

I hit the starter and just get the now very familar sound of the (brand new relay) clicking continously.

However I've noticed a couple of small things that hopefully one of you electrical wizards might help me with.

If I pull the clutch in and try and start the bike the relay just clicks continously.......If I leave the clutch out I get (I believe its the fuel pump relay) one solid click and the "diag" symbol comes on on the dash.

Its defiantely one of the relays mounted at the rear of the bike that clicks.

So could the micro switch on the clutch be at fault? I've rocked the bike in gear to make sure she's not at TDC of course and to make sure the starter motor is free. The starter motor is definately not jammed as I can hear it spinning if I rock the bike in gear. Oh and the wires for the Diagnostics are not touching in fact there miles apart

Any assistance ot thoughts please ? I appreciate the vast majority of you are sick to death of this issue so I apologise in advance but everyone (inc professional mechanics and electrical experts such as Twaeaker) is / are stumped on what's causing this problem.

I'm afraid I'm gonna do something silly (like smash the f****g thing to bits with a large hammer) if i can't get a resolution to this soon.......its doing my head in

I'll give it 10 mins and then short out the relay to see what happens, but I think maybe a new starter motor and clutch micro switch could be next on the list of purchase to try and fix this issue

F9

[D-Rider]

.... that's because the chattering relay is a sign of a battery that is not well charged or, more likely, is a bit knackered and has a high internal resistance.
It could also be due to loose or dirty connections - most likely at the battery but anywhere that can drop enough volts to the relay coil (when under starting load) causing the relay to drop out.

[Aladinsaneuk]

Nod

I would recharge battery and check battery terminals for tightness

[Falco9]

Battery is brand new (well 3 weeks old) and is on the Optimate all the time (the Optimate is on a timer that turns off and allows the Optimate to re-set) The terminals are spotlessly clean and tight

I'm very very close to pouring petrol over it and throwing a match at it. I loved my last Falco but I hate this piece of crap with a vengance................deep breath......................and breathe.................

F9

[blinkey501]

I'm now almost at the end of my tether.............Gave the Falco a wash and brush up today as I was planning on going to see Ben race his Falco at Harewood hill climb tomorrow. Came to start her up and.............yes you've guessed it the starter relay issue has reared its ugly head once again. The bike has run faultlessly for the last few weeks

I hit the starter and just get the now very familar sound of the (brand new relay) clicking continously.

However I've noticed a couple of small things that hopefully one of you electrical wizards might help me with.

If I pull the clutch in and try and start the bike the relay just clicks continously.......If I leave the clutch out I get (I believe its the fuel pump relay) one solid click and the "diag" symbol comes on on the dash.

Its defiantely one of the relays mounted at the rear of the bike that clicks.

So could the micro switch on the clutch be at fault? I've rocked the bike in gear to make sure she's not at TDC of course and to make sure the starter motor is free. The starter motor is definately not jammed as I can hear it spinning if I rock the bike in gear. Oh and the wires for the Diagnostics are not touching in fact there miles apart

Any assistance ot thoughts please ? I appreciate the vast majority of you are sick to death of this issue so I apologise in advance but everyone (inc professional mechanics and electrical experts such as Twaeaker) is / are stumped on what's causing this problem.

I'm afraid I'm gonna do something silly (like smash the f****g thing to bits with a large hammer) if i can't get a resolution to this soon.......its doing my head in

I'll give it 10 mins and then short out the relay to see what happens, but I think maybe a new starter motor and clutch micro switch could be next on the list of purchase to try and fix this issue

F9

Watch the fairing watch the fairing

[D-Rider]

Battery is brand new (well 3 weeks old) and is on the Optimate all the time (the Optimate is on a timer that turns off and allows the Optimate to re-set) The terminals are spotlessly clean and tight

I'm very very close to pouring petrol over it and throwing a match at it. I loved my last Falco but I hate this piece of crap with a vengance................deep breath......................and breathe.................

F9

Occasionally you get a duff new battery. Stick a volt meter on it, hit the start button and see what it drops to under load.

[Nooj]

Washed it eh? Where did the water get into? Dry the relays connectors off, grease them up, check for corroded earth points, spray some WD40 into the switch gear and over the ambient temp sensor.

[paddyz1]

Charge the battery with a proper charger as the opitmate might be at fault.
Any water that may have got into the system would have gone by now.

[Falco9]

Paddy, I also thought that maybe the Optimate might be faulty as I have some issues with it recently. (various lights coming on randomly - the wiring on these units seems really weak) so I'm going to buy a new charger this week anyway.

I checked as many of the connectors as I could last night and found nothing amiss or overly wet (every connector is full of dialectric grease from the last full check so they should be waterproof)

However after a night on said Optimate (all lights on green this morning) the battery was reading 13.5 volts. I shorted out the starter relay and she started straight away. The charging readout on the dash is showing 13.5-13.6 and all appears well again. The battery is reading 12.7 once the Optimate was disconnected and the bike had been running for a while.

I left her running for about 10mins turned her off and and then tried to restart her on the button and voila...instant start!.

So at the moment I've stopped and re-started the bike on the button about a dozen times and all appears well but I've noticed it wont start at all if the clutch isn't pulled in. (I just get the fuel pump relay click)

I wondered if this is due to the fact I currently have the neutral light disconnected whilst the new neutral light switch is on order or could this be a pointer as to what is wrong???

I've always started the bike with the clutch pulled in,no throttle and full cold start so I've not noticed this before

The burning is on hold at the mo, but I need to get to the bottom of this issue if I'm ever going to be able to ride anywhere without worrying that the next time I come to start her up this is going to happen all over again

F9

[anzacinexile]

The change of behavior when the clutch is pulled in is telling me your clutch micro switch is OK. I would check the diode pack if it were me

[flatlander]

Because then I can say things like

I would try washing it the same as you mormally do and see if the problem reoccurs it will give you something to do whilst you are sitting looking at it and eliminate water imngress as a possible cause

If it does kill it I would then try using a hair dryer on a very low setting and gently dry the suspect switch / relay one at a time and try starting in between. If this works and I see no reason why it would then at least you have isolated the problem part

[Falco9]

The change of behavior when the clutch is pulled in is telling me your clutch micro switch is OK. I would check the diode pack if it were me

Thanks for the advice, luckily I have a spare diode pack which I'll swap over tommorow. I also have a multimeter but no idea how to use it However once I've mastered it I'll check the diode out. I dare say the workshop manual will have the measurements it should be giving

Flatlander...................No chance, I'd rather poke my own eyeballs out!

[HowardQ]

Battery is brand new (well 3 weeks old) and is on the Optimate all the time (the Optimate is on a timer that turns off and allows the Optimate to re-set) The terminals are spotlessly clean and tight

I'm very very close to pouring petrol over it and throwing a match at it. I loved my last Falco but I hate this piece of crap with a vengance................deep breath......................and breathe.................

F9

Occasionally you get a duff new battery. Stick a volt meter on it, hit the start button and see what it drops to under load.

I know this sounds daft, but I had this exact problem with a brand new Yuasa a while ago. I was struggling with starting problems like you Rich. The bike was always on the Ring (optimate type) charger, but still problems. It was dropping to pretty low level when turning over
Swapped it for a new Dynavolt gel battery, with a higher turning rate, (can't remember exact rating).
The Falco is now back to starting 1st time every time and has never been on a charge at all.
Also had a similar problem a few years ago, but that new one was dead in three weeks!

Still reckon it is most likely to be some sort of poor connection, or failing relay somewhere, but don't rule the battery out completely.
Good luck!

[Falco9]

Cheers Howard,

The battery is a Bosch which I took to be a decent brand. But whilst I'm swapping the diode pack over today I'll check the to see what the battery drops to when cranking the engine over as Andy mentioned.

I've now checked (un-connected, visually checked, and re-connected) every single electric connection on the bike and packed each connection with diaeletric grease, the earth point on the block has been cleaned and all earths are clean & tight as are the battery connections. Every connection so far has appeared OK with no signs of corrosion or oxidisation on any of them. Each relay has been removed and the connections cleaned and greased (with dialectric again) So far I haven't found any obvious or visual problems. I've even gone as far as replacing virtually every single fuse with new ones just to eliminate any issues there

What kind of voltage figure should I be looking for at the battery whilst cranking the engine???

I'm sure I'll get there in the end its just soooooooooooooooooooo frustrating that I can't trust her to re-start because shes a great bike to ride. She handles great now I've got the correct linkage for the shock and she has such a strong motor

F9

[Samray]

Have you thought of getting the local vicar in to do an exorcism?