Oil change gone wrong

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matapaca · #46 Post by **matapaca** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:56 pm

OK so just spoke to Griff and he said to take off generator cover and clutch cover to check for bits after which it's drop the engine time, if I get time i will have a look at the gen cover tonight but we know the clutch is OK.

How difficult is it to get to the sprag clutch and oil pump? There was a loud twang noise the last time I tried to turn it over so I think it may have something to do with it but not sure how it would stop the engine from turning over.

Sounds it's engine out time as any repair will take some time. So time to start looking for a replacement engine as I need it up and running to commute.

Will keep you updated as I go

thanks again everyone

Dalemac · #47 Post by **Dalemac** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:20 pm

matapaca wrote:OK so just spoke to Griff and he said to take off generator cover and clutch cover to check for bits after which it's drop the engine time, if I get time i will have a look at the gen cover tonight but we know the clutch is OK.

How difficult is it to get to the sprag clutch and oil pump? There was a loud twang noise the last time I tried to turn it over so I think it may have something to do with it but not sure how it would stop the engine from turning over.

Sounds it's engine out time as any repair will take some time. So time to start looking for a replacement engine as I need it up and running to commute.

Will keep you updated as I go

thanks again everyone

these clips might be helpful in understanding how sprags work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVMVQy2yKDE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx3auVU2C_A

Although from these I fail to see how the sprag could be locked on. Presumably the sprag would be in flywheel mode most of the time and then locked on during starting (when rotation is reversed). If the sprag failed then surely it would just revert to flywheel mode and the starter motor would still spin?

Firestarter · #48 Post by **Firestarter** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:53 pm

Firestarter wrote:Pinched from af1 forum (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... 3949cd3366):
The book calls for 3.9 US qt. (3700cm3) w/o filter change
and 4.1 qt. (3900cm3) with filter change.
A lot of people seem convinced that it's better to run a bit less than above, but what ever.
If anything, is 3.2 litres a bit low?

Just finished an oil and filter change - I put in about 3.75 litres, warmed it up (fans kicked in twice), and the level came up about 1/2" above the minimum mark

Dunno at what level you might get a problem, but yes 3.2 l would seem a bit low, dunno if it's low enough to cause an engine seize though

matapaca · #49 Post by **matapaca** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:44 am

Hi Firestarter
thanks for confirming I didn't put too much in. Wayne gave me a local contact for an engine which I went to see on Saturday - RSVR @ 18K and all looks good. Anyway I spent all day yesterday trying to get my engine out which I finally managed - I did note that the oil that came out of the oil cooler was very dark and looked like old oil. Whats' the possibility of something breaking up and jamming oil pump or gearing.
If I get a chance this week I will take the covers off to see if anything obvious is visible.

Quick question: to fit the gear lever on the rsv engine, is it a simple case of fitting it to the top or do i need some rsv parts?

cheers

matapaca · #50 Post by **matapaca** » Fri May 08, 2015 11:08 am

Well it is with great shame that I admit to an almighty f**k up. Over the bank holiday I got a chance connect up the new rsvr engine and when I got to putting in the new oil and filter as you can imagine I was very careful. but as I took out the old fitler I also pulled out the filter from the falco engine to compare and discovered my error.

So a couple of months back when I was changing oil and filter on the falco I pulled out the old filter which had actually come apart but to me it was the way it was meant to be and I hadn't realised I should have taken the end plate out of the oil filter casing. The next day I put in the new filter but didn't check which way around it was meant to go. I just presumed the open end was meant to go over the bump in the casing and as it wouldn't go any other way I just placed it over the spring. I've been mentally kicking myself in the head since Monday.

Now I have bared my soul and got that out the way - any thoughts on how much damage and where to start looking? There were no bits in the oil but then there wouldn't be as none circulated. where to open up first?

Secondly - I managed to hook up the new rsvr engine and surprisingly it started first go but was revving hard so I switch off. I turned the idle screw out and tried it again but just got clicking from the solenoid. I have checked and cleaned the earth connections and fully charged the battery and still just getting a solenoid click. I connected the wires in the ecu box and got code 1.

I put a screw driver across the terminal ends of the solenoid and got no sparks or turn over. All suggestions welcome.

cheers Matt

Firestarter · #51 Post by **Firestarter** » Fri May 08, 2015 11:38 am

matapaca wrote:Well it is with great shame that I admit to an almighty f**k up. Over the bank holiday I got a chance connect up the new rsvr engine and when I got to putting in the new oil and filter as you can imagine I was very careful. but as I took out the old fitler I also pulled out the filter from the falco engine to compare and discovered my error.

So a couple of months back when I was changing oil and filter on the falco I pulled out the old filter which had actually come apart but to me it was the way it was meant to be and I hadn't realised I should have taken the end plate out of the oil filter casing. The next day I put in the new filter but didn't check which way around it was meant to go. I just presumed the open end was meant to go over the bump in the casing and as it wouldn't go any other way I just placed it over the spring. I've been mentally kicking myself in the head since Monday.

Now I have bared my soul and got that out the way - any thoughts on how much damage and where to start looking? There were no bits in the oil but then there wouldn't be as none circulated. where to open up first?

Secondly - I managed to hook up the new rsvr engine and surprisingly it started first go but was revving hard so I switch off. I turned the idle screw out and tried it again but just got clicking from the solenoid. I have checked and cleaned the earth connections and fully charged the battery and still just getting a solenoid click. I connected the wires in the ecu box and got code 1.

I put a screw driver across the terminal ends of the solenoid and got no sparks or turn over. All suggestions welcome.

cheers Matt

Sorry can't help with where to look. But just for my understanding, the filter wasn't properly fitted? Don't think this would mean oil wouldn't be circulated, just that it wouldn't go through the filter. Essentially un-filtered oil going through the engine, but don't think that would be a problem (at least, not until the oil had gather up some crud?)

Dalemac · #52 Post by **Dalemac** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:35 am

You tit.....

If the filter was put in backwards then it could have severely restricted the oil flow. Any oil able to pass through would not be filtered.

Where to look? If you have ran without oil then pretty much every component that requires lubrication could be damaged. Cams, pistons, rings, bearings, clutch....you get the idea.

From memory you couldn't turn the engine by hand so piston rings have probably seized. Weird noises probably caused by a bearing failing.

The engine is probably not worth the hassle of fixing, but might be 'fun' to strip down and assess properly.

As for the new engine, you fired it up, adjusted the idle screw and now it won't turn over? Did you hit the killswitch and then forget to reset it?

wayno · #53 Post by **wayno** » Sat May 09, 2015 12:54 pm

It sounds to me like a wiring connection issue.

Matt, I can't come over today as I'm busy all afternoon, but I'll give you a shout tomorrow and try to come over with mine as a comparison

matapaca · #54 Post by **matapaca** » Sun May 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Yes I fell a proper tit. the good news is that I took the cable off the starter motor and cleaned it up and she fired up straight away. ran the engine up to 105 but the fans didn't kick in. Next job is to sort out the gear lever ro se if will work, just not had time. I had an accident a week ago riding my mates xjr and was cut up. thankfully it had crash bars but had to fix the indicator switch and a few other things as returning it tomorrow. Regardless of what others say I think it important for filtering and commuting to have bloody load pipes as people just don't use their mirrors.
Wayne I'm just back from taking the family out, will be working on it tonight your welcome to come over for a cup of tea and thanks again for offering to help out.
cheers
MAtt

matapaca · #55 Post by **matapaca** » Thu May 14, 2015 9:19 am

The Falco is back on the road and running sweet as a nut - thanks to everyone for your help.

I had one question though - when putting the tank back on it doesn't seem to fit properly:
1. it doesn't go past the top clamp properly - would seem the bike has shrunk.
2. it wont go all the way down. I think the RSVR engine might be bigger and are stopping it from meeting it's bolt-down points properly. As an easy solution would it be possible to swap the rocker/valve covers from the Falco engine to the RSVR engine??

MLP clutch slave also a great improvement and I managed to get the rsvr gear lever so didn't need to mess about with the reverse linkage - it was looking like a real problem. She starts immediately on the button,. Just got to get used to the front end - looking to upgrade internals - any suggestions. was thinking of simple revalve with Reactive Susupension in York.

Cheers
Matt

wayno · #56 Post by **wayno** » Thu May 14, 2015 9:30 am

Your tank has swollen due to ethanol in the fuel. When I refit the tank I tend to remove the rear mount off the subframe, loosely do up the front and the pull the rear in.

Glad the engine is ok, I'll Let Ian know it's in and running.

Dalemac · #57 Post by **Dalemac** » Thu May 14, 2015 12:17 pm

Yep, It's a common thing for the plastic tanks to expand due to the ethanol in the fuel. There is currently a project going on right now to produce a carbon fibre tank for the falco, if tou are interested then contact D-Rider and he will give you more info. (Warning, you will need to have lots of cash lying around).

Otherwise just accept that the tank is going to get more and more difficult to replace over time.

matapaca · #58 Post by **matapaca** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:17 am

Thanks Wayne for the tip on fitting the tank. I guess it will swell up all over. it was always difficult to gets past the top clamp but it would always clamp down - now there is about a 15mm gap. I read somewhere that the RSVR and Falco engines have different design rocker covers which may be causing the gap I will have to try and measure them up.

Ride to work this morning with repacked carbon cans - woke a few people up.

Any thought's on front suspension? Is it possible to get K-Tech gold valves in the UK?

Cheers

#59 Post by **mangocrazy** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:29 am

I've got RaceTech Gold valves on both Falcos and they made a huge difference. I fitted the Gold Valves and some Hyperpro progressive springs and the front end was transformed. I got mine direct from the US - the GBP/USD exchange rate is pretty favourable at the moment. The kit you want is the FMGV S2040 (assuming you have Showa 43mm USD forks).

Viking · #60 Post by **Viking** » Sun May 17, 2015 7:43 pm

Sadly, you're out of luck if you have Marzocci forks installed. RaceTech don't make a kit for them.

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Oil change gone wrong

update on siezed engine

Re: update on siezed engine

back up and running