Not again...............

Message

blinkey501 · #16 Post by **blinkey501** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:19 pm

ok no worries, just been out to garage and took right hand side panel off to look at starter on my bike. if you do try my aproach there is only one live wire to clip too any way so you cant make a mistake. with the starter motor it can be something like worn brushes its that simple. I have had simular problems when racing cars please if you do have any more issues i am more than happy to help. i have had a lot of help from forum members on things i dont understand

and would like to give assistance in any way i can to give something back has you are a great bunch

. cheers blinkey

furygan man · #17 Post by **furygan man** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:38 pm

blinkey501 wrote:ok no worries, just been out to garage and took right hand side panel off to look at starter on my bike. if you do try my aproach there is only one live wire to clip too any way so you cant make a mistake. with the starter motor it can be something like worn brushes its that simple. I have had simular problems when racing cars please if you do have any more issues i am more than happy to help. i have had a lot of help from forum members on things i dont understand and would like to give assistance in any way i can to give something back has you are a great bunch . cheers blinkey

Falcopops · #18 Post by **Falcopops** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:30 pm

Easy way to bypass the starter solenoid is to chuck a screwdriver across the terminals, you'll get some sparks and some molten metal, but it works, I've had to use this method at the roadside in the past.

blinkey501 · #19 Post by **blinkey501** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:59 pm

furygan man wrote:
blinkey501 wrote:ok no worries, just been out to garage and took right hand side panel off to look at starter on my bike. if you do try my aproach there is only one live wire to clip too any way so you cant make a mistake. with the starter motor it can be something like worn brushes its that simple. I have had simular problems when racing cars please if you do have any more issues i am more than happy to help. i have had a lot of help from forum members on things i dont understand and would like to give assistance in any way i can to give something back has you are a great bunch . cheers blinkey

blinkey501 · #20 Post by **blinkey501** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:46 am

blinkey501 wrote:
furygan man wrote:
blinkey501 wrote:ok no worries, just been out to garage and took right hand side panel off to look at starter on my bike. if you do try my aproach there is only one live wire to clip too any way so you cant make a mistake. with the starter motor it can be something like worn brushes its that simple. I have had simular problems when racing cars please if you do have any more issues i am more than happy to help. i have had a lot of help from forum members on things i dont understand and would like to give assistance in any way i can to give something back has you are a great bunch . cheers blinkey

i really should stop going to the pub straight from work

furygan man · #21 Post by **furygan man** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:05 am

If you want to give something back, why not start with a recently aquired smoked rear lens?...me first please

blinkey501 · #22 Post by **blinkey501** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:14 pm

furygan man wrote:If you want to give something back, why not start with a recently aquired smoked rear lens?...me first please

i dont have it yet, so not had chance to get aquainted

but if i dont like it i will pm you. though i would not get your hopes up too much dude

furygan man · #23 Post by **furygan man** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:26 pm

blinkey501 wrote:
furygan man wrote:If you want to give something back, why not start with a recently aquired smoked rear lens?...me first please
i dont have it yet, so not had chance to get aquainted but if i dont like it i will pm you. though i would not get your hopes up too much dude

...dam newbies

Dalemac · #24 Post by **Dalemac** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:59 pm

this may seem a little odd, but turn off the ignition and flip the killswitch on and off again.

Sometimes when mine wont start for no apparent reason, i do the above and it works.

Dale

D-Rider · #25 Post by **D-Rider** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:57 pm

Dalemac wrote:this may seem a little odd, but turn off the ignition and flip the killswitch on and off again.

Sometimes when mine wont start for no apparent reason, i do the above and it works.

Dale

Not that odd - you are probably cleaning some (high impedance) oxide off of the switch contacts.

Falco9 · #26 Post by **Falco9** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:17 pm

Now back from my jollies to find the new starter soleniod waiting for me.
Fitted today and........................yes you've guessed it still no joy starting and stiill the solenoid is clicking like a banshee when I hit the button.
No other obvious electical issues as such, the dash isn't re-setting and the fuel pump primes OK. Everthing appears fine until I hit the button when all get is masses of clicking

It then occured to me that the starter motor may be jammed? Rocking the bike backwards and forwards whilst in gear I can hear what sounds like the motor spinning (but only when rocking backwards) got the bike into 5th gear and by trying to bump it off I managed to get it to turn over (just once) so I know its not stuck at TDC but still the sound is there.

I've removed the 2 allen bolts at the end of the motor that secure it to the engine but it won't come free (yet) Of course the bike is at my parents so I've only had limited tools to hand. Tommorow I plan to go over with my full tool kit and paddock stands to see if I can get the motor off. Has anyone else had the motor jammed solid before or am I barking up the wrong tree?

F9

D-Rider · #27 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:08 pm

Yes a mechanically jammed starter could give these symptoms - if it doesn't spin there will be no back-emf hence big current flow, big volts drop at every point of resistance (including the battery's internal resistance) hence quickly dropping battery terminal voltage.
That would cause the relay to drop out, Current would stop flowing, battery would recover, relay would close again .... cycle repeats ..... clatter-clatter-clatter.

Will have to remember this scenario as another cause of relay clatter.

Sorry not to have thought of that one before

bigun · #28 Post by **bigun** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:25 pm

Before you do all that, I had the exact same problem with the Mille. Turned out to be a 30a fuse beind the starter solenoid that had blown. I tried everything (I even by passed the alarm thinking it was that) to no avail, about to purchase a new solenoid when I found the fuse. Just check that for sanity's sake - I'm sure it'll be the same setup as the Mille.

Oh, and have you bypassed the solenoid with a screwdriver? I did that and it turned over but wouldn't fire. Proved it wasn't the starter at least.

Falco9 · #29 Post by **Falco9** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:26 pm

bigun wrote:Before you do all that, I had the exact same problem with the Mille. Turned out to be a 30a fuse beind the starter solenoid that had blown. I tried everything (I even by passed the alarm thinking it was that) to no avail, about to purchase a new solenoid when I found the fuse. Just check that for sanity's sake - I'm sure it'll be the same setup as the Mille.

Oh, and have you bypassed the solenoid with a screwdriver? I did that and it turned over but wouldn't fire. Proved it wasn't the starter at least.

Hi Mate, Good to hear from you, I'll check the fuses tommorow before I remove the starter motor. So even with the fuse blown you got the same clicking from the solenoid???
I haven't bypassed the solenoid yet, if all else fails I'll try it but I'm convinced the stater motor is jammed, the sound it makes when I rock the bike (in gear) sounds just like its turning the starter motor as the engine moves (kind of a whirring sound..its hard to explain....)

F9

bigun · #30 Post by **bigun** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:18 am

I had exactly the same symptoms. The thing that put me off was the fuse looked ok. It was only when I thought to actually pull them out (there's two), I found one was blown and the other turns out to be a spare. Swapped over and she fired. Before that it still clicked the relay continuously and when you bypass the solenoid it turned over. I have no idea why as my electrical knowledge is trial and error rather than common sense!

I'm not sure about it being your starter motor. When the starter has current applied to it, the cog jumps out into the engine to turn it over. As soon as the current is no longer there it retracts back. With you rocking the engine back and forth, if it were jammed I'm sure it would have released. The tension on the spring to pull it back is pretty high to make sure it doesn't fall into the engine during operation. (Least thats how it works on a Mk3 Golf GTI!).

Let us know how you get on!