Testing the water....

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#16 Post by **mangocrazy** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:44 pm

I think it's entirely dependent on how many people commit.

Firestarter · #17 Post by **Firestarter** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:57 am

Hmm. Tempting. However, even at the cheaper end of the scale, the tank is going to be costing around half of the bike's worth. Other than the "I've got carbon fibre bling", is this going to add much? (or take much away

)

#18 Post by **mangocrazy** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:53 pm

It should cure the tank expansion problem (assuming the internal tank coating is up to snuff), and properly designed you could probably add a litre or two of volume without changing the overall look or dimensions significantly. Both would be very nice to have, but it's all about cost/benefit...

D-Rider · #19 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:53 pm

Yes this is definitely interesting.

I've been thinking that if we were to widen the tank by 2cm and grow the height by about 2cm we could end up with probably 24 - 25 litres. This would be a useful improvement over standard and not change the look and feel very much. It would probably add a bit to the mould making cost.

Of course the big pluses are the resistance to ethanol and the bling factor .... and looking at the pictures of the RS250 tanks he makes, they look superb.
I would hope that although not cheap, the costs would work out well - his prices for RS250 tanks seem very competitive.

The last few times I've ridden my Falco, I've noticed a bit of a whiff of fuel. Guess my fuel lines might need replacing.
What would be good is if we could put together a bit of a kit ... new tank, ethanol resistant fuel hoses and some decent QD connectors.

The background behind all this is a discussion on Facebook - here's a link to the thread:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 113&type=1

Here's a link to the facebook page too:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/P3-Compo ... le_browser

There are some nice pictures on the links.

Firestarter · #20 Post by **Firestarter** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:31 pm

I'm confused now, because the opening statement was "will be as resistant to ethanol as the current tanks". If they wouldn't swell, that would be a big plus (and might sell me on the idea), but if they'll be no better then the benefits would only be bling?

D-Rider · #21 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:09 pm

Firestarter wrote:I'm confused now, because the opening statement was "will be as resistant to ethanol as the current tanks". If they wouldn't swell, that would be a big plus (and might sell me on the idea), but if they'll be no better then the benefits would only be bling?

That's not my understanding from the FB discussion with the chap that makes them - though clearly we would need to double and triple check that before committing.

I think the thing that might have been confusing is that (from my reading), the interior of the tank is fully sealed against ethanol but the outside isn't.
Always possible I've got the wrong end of the stick, but that's my present understanding.

Nooj · #22 Post by **Nooj** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:28 pm

Even I've lost track now :-s I'll have a proper chat with the dude who would be making them again (if it goes ahead). He did tell me, but I've got so much going round my head ATM, anything that's not immediate tends to be pushed out by by more urgent stuff.

#23 Post by **mangocrazy** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:38 pm

I'd definitely be interested in greater tank capacity, but my only concern is that if we pushed it too much, all those with Bagster tank bags (and I declare an interest here) would be left with having to find alternatives. And for me there is no alternative to the Bagster/Baglux system...

D-Rider · #24 Post by **D-Rider** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:41 pm

mangocrazy wrote:I'd definitely be interested in greater tank capacity, but my only concern is that if we pushed it too much, all those with Bagster tank bags (and I declare an interest here) would be left with having to find alternatives. And for me there is no alternative to the Bagster/Baglux system...

Hmmm that's an interesting one. Though I'd think we could get some panels stitched in for not too much .... just like some get their leathers "eased" as they "shrink in the wash" over the feasting season.

#25 Post by **mangocrazy** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:00 pm

D-Rider wrote:The last few times I've ridden my Falco, I've noticed a bit of a whiff of fuel. Guess my fuel lines might need replacing.
What would be good is if we could put together a bit of a kit ... new tank, ethanol resistant fuel hoses and some decent QD connectors.

I looked into this a couple of years back, as the fuel hoses on my '88 VFR were way past their best, and it seems very difficult to get proper ethanol-proof fuel hose in the UK. In the US Gates market some really trick fuel hose called 'Barricade'. They reckon that yearly fuel loss through the hose is reduced from one gallon (!) with conventional hose to two tablespoons with Gates Barricade. Product spec is here:

http://www.gates.com/~/media/Files/Gate ... 287085.pdf

I managed to get hold of some carburettor-spec and FI-spec Gates Barricade hose from my brother in Law in the US and used most of it renewing the fuel hoses on the VFR and my 888 Ducati, both of which were in a very sorry state. I think it would be a very good idea to do a group buy of a decent sized drum of the FI-spec stuff and sell it among the members of Ridersite. QD fuel couplers are readily available, and I've already put one on the delivery line of the blue Falco. Why did Aprilia only fit a QD coupler on the return feed, and none on the supply feed? One of life's great mysteries...

D-Rider · #26 Post by **D-Rider** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:05 am

mangocrazy wrote:
D-Rider wrote:The last few times I've ridden my Falco, I've noticed a bit of a whiff of fuel. Guess my fuel lines might need replacing.
What would be good is if we could put together a bit of a kit ... new tank, ethanol resistant fuel hoses and some decent QD connectors.
I looked into this a couple of years back, as the fuel hoses on my '88 VFR were way past their best, and it seems very difficult to get proper ethanol-proof fuel hose in the UK. In the US Gates market some really trick fuel hose called 'Barricade'. They reckon that yearly fuel loss through the hose is reduced from one gallon (!) with conventional hose to two tablespoons with Gates Barricade. Product spec is here:

http://www.gates.com/~/media/Files/Gate ... 287085.pdf

I managed to get hold of some carburettor-spec and FI-spec Gates Barricade hose from my brother in Law in the US and used most of it renewing the fuel hoses on the VFR and my 888 Ducati, both of which were in a very sorry state. I think it would be a very good idea to do a group buy of a decent sized drum of the FI-spec stuff and sell it among the members of Ridersite. QD fuel couplers are readily available, and I've already put one on the delivery line of the blue Falco. Why did Aprilia only fit a QD coupler on the return feed, and none on the supply feed? One of life's great mysteries...

Great info Graham.
I did a quick search for Gates Barricade and found there is now a UK supplier (which should stop import hassles):
http://www.flexiducting.co.uk/automotive_hoses_26.html

It seems they also do an alternative that is rated to work with E10 ethanol and other nasties - and seems pretty cheap. It's called Codan.

Do you have any info on the size of hose we need and the correct QD couplings?

I think a plan is coming together.

#27 Post by **mangocrazy** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:04 pm

The size of fuel hose for our bikes is 5/16" or 8mm. This seems pretty standard for motorcycle use. The QD connectors are available from Tom Parkers:

http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_gr ... roups=8145

Or they're available via eBay - just search for QD fuel couplings. I can't provide a link right now as eBay is blocked at work (miserable sods). To replace the non-QD supply line from the tank you'll need to take it off, measure it up and calculate the length of (ethanol-resistant) 8mm hose you'll need, and order up a QD coupling with 8mm barbs on the end of the fittings.

To hold it all together I used Oetiker clamps, as they're neat, quick and the same as OE. You could also use jubilee clips or similar, but I prefer the clamps as they're neater and there's no chance of the clamp digging into the fuel line. Tom Parker also sell these, but you'd need to match the clamp size to the hose you're using. Here's the link to the clamps:

http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_su ... oups=4145A

Lastly, you'll need a set of crimping pliers. I got mine off eBay. Just search for Oetiker pliers. Tom Parker's postage charges are pretty steep, so you're advised to order everything you need from them in one hit. Their delivery is bloody quick, mind. And they're the only people I can find who sell the single ear stainless Oetiker clamps with the smooth internal sleeve. I've tried getting them from other places and they are simply not as good.

ginge · #28 Post by **ginge** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:01 pm

The fuel lines are a good mod, and I will be making some up for my bike!

Afraid I couldnt justify spending almost as much as my bike cost (if not more) simply on the tank though!