do you believe there is a god?

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lazarus · #1 Post by **lazarus** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:23 pm

Well BG did say it was a bit quiet so here's a topic to discuss.

Watched a TV program by that physicist with motor neurone disease ( senility - cant remember names these days) and he reckoned that as quantum mechanics and relativity have coalesced in string theory and now M theory, it proves that time did not exist before the big bang and neither did any of the other dimensions. Therefore not only was there no need for a god but no god could have existed since nothing existed.

Over to you!

#2 Post by **mangocrazy** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:49 pm

I believe people create their own Gods (or gods), and so there are probably an infinite number of them.

Aladinsaneuk · #3 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:10 pm

/moderators hat on

Watching very carefully folks - please do not piss off folks

Bar the Muslims of course!

BikerGran · #4 Post by **BikerGran** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:41 pm

Yes I believe in god - as a well known person said "Whatever that means"

TBH it would take far too long to explain exactly what and how and why I believe.

I used to be a churchgoer and a committed member but I don't go any more as I found them too narrow minded. I miss it but I still feel the same way and believe the same things as when I left so I guess there's no going back.

But I'm still a Christian of a sort - my own sort. That is to say, I do my best to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, which are not complicated and can be whittled down to "Treat other people as you would wish them to treat you'.

But I have a lot of sympathy for pagan ideas too.

Willopotomas · #5 Post by **Willopotomas** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:31 pm

mangocrazy wrote:I believe people create their own Gods (or gods), and so there are probably an infinite number of them.

Same here. I'm not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't begrudge people who are. Unless they try to ram it down my throat, then we get along just fine. I see the belief in God(s) to be a comfort for those who do, and who am I to tell them otherwise.

Viking · #6 Post by **Viking** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:11 pm

I'm with Will on this one. You can have your god, just don't bother me with it.

BikerGran · #7 Post by **BikerGran** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:20 pm

I agree, I never bother people with my god unless I'm asked.

Cathcart · #8 Post by **Cathcart** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:18 am

No, to me the Bible is a method of control etc. Nowt against folk who do believe, as was said previous, just don't like it rammed down my throat constantly.
Everyone believes different things, each to their own needs.

Paulh · #9 Post by **Paulh** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:28 am

There isn't one (or many), religion is just a means of controlling people.

Dalemac · #10 Post by **Dalemac** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:51 am

I'll confess that I have a rather strange view on the gods. I do not wish to insult or diminish anyone's beliefs - I just think there has to be more to the subject than suffering and magic.

Do I believe there in a deistic or theistic type of god - no.

However, history and religion over thousands of years describes god-like encounters worldwide. Many ancient religions describe god as essentially coming from the sky, teaching,sharing knowledge, and then returning to the sky. I think it happens far too regularly throughout history for it to be a mere coincidence. Civilizations which apparently had no prior contact or knowledge with each other, or who lived over time period separated by hundreds/thousands of years documented strikingly similar encounters with their gods.

What if these encounters with gods were actually superior life form(s) visiting earth to help us develop and enhance?

Humans at the time would have documented these encounters and tried to apply their own relative knowledge to their situation. They might have recorded this as perhaps a human with wings (after observing birds in flight in the sky), or even flying boats to represent spacecraft.

Religion documents similar beings. Christianity has angels, Judaism has kaballah, Islam has malak.

Ancient civilizations were also seemingly obsessed with astronomy. But why? It bears little help to the average human in this day and age so why was it such a massive part of ancient civilizations?

If these gods did come to earth and help us develop scientifically and morally, it wouldn't be hard to understand why they were worshiped as superior god-like beings.

This will all sound absurd to most people, but is it not at least possible that ancient encounters with gods were actually a superior life form from somewhere else, trying to help and better our own species?

To me it makes more sense than 'god did it because he loves us' or 'god did it because we have been bad'.

So do I believe in the gods - Yes. But my definition of god is massively different from anyone who follows a deistic or theistic faith.

lazarus · #11 Post by **lazarus** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:05 pm

The TV program was of interest to me because my degree, many years ago, was in Physics. So I can half understand what Stephen Hawking was saying. Emphasis on half! And that was that the current fundamental theories of physics had been proved by comparing observation with theoretical calculation down to the nth degree. To within 10^-43 seconds of big bang itself.

As an example they calculated using big bang theory, thermodynamics etc that the universe should contain 23% helium. And guess what - it does just that,

But the point here is that if all this theory hangs together as well as it does, we are saying that its impossible for there to be a god since nothing including time existed before big bang.

Interesting isnt it?

Dalemac · #12 Post by **Dalemac** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:39 pm

lazarus wrote:The TV program was of interest to me because my degree, many years ago, was in Physics. So I can half understand what Stephen Hawking was saying. Emphasis on half! And that was that the current fundamental theories of physics had been proved by comparing observation with theoretical calculation down to the nth degree. To within 10^-43 seconds of big bang itself.

As an example they calculated using big bang theory, thermodynamics etc that the universe should contain 23% helium. And guess what - it does just that,

But the point here is that if all this theory hangs together as well as it does, we are saying that its impossible for there to be a god since nothing including time existed before big bang.

Interesting isnt it?

Indeed!

On the topic of nothingness, it completely boggles the mind to think of nothing. I remember doing the vacuum experiment in school and trying to contemplate it.

What is even more interesting is that elements can be made from nothing with the introduction of a bit of gravity. Leave it long enough and you will always get matter. (Krauss).

Aladinsaneuk · #13 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:59 pm

one assumes that you have read "chariot of the gods"?

Dalemac · #14 Post by **Dalemac** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:42 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:one assumes that you have read "chariot of the gods"?

Nope. Might do at some point though. Would also be fascinating to thoroughly read some religious text and compare stories. Might be a challenge one day actually!

BikerGran · #15 Post by **BikerGran** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:11 pm

I have a really interesting book called something like 'Religions of the World' (not sure where it or I'd have a look).
It's much too long and involved to actually read from start to finish but very good to dip into, and it's quite surprising how much similarity there is between widely differing religions.

By the way, re various posts above - people often say they don't want to offend or put down those who believe, then proceed to do exactly that!

And someone said that it must be a comfort to those who believe. This is a commonly held misconception about religion, a lot of the time it's exactly the opposite! A lot of times it's hard to behave in the way you feel you ought to when what you really want to do is let rip, scream and cry, do what suits YOU and no-one else!

And Dalemac - I don't think your ideas are incompatible with my kind of religion at all.