My day in court?

Message

HisNibbs · #1 Post by **HisNibbs** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:55 pm

Had one of those nasty speed camera letters a while back....

It was nearly 3 months after the incident claiming my car was doing 39 in a 30 on a reasonably local road. I thought I was some where else but with that time lag couldn't be sure. Checked out on the web and thought three months was a bit more that the two weeks maximum it is supposed to take.
I accepted that I was driving the car at the time but did not plead guilty and pointed out the undo delay.
I got a letter back saying they only had to prove that they had sought my identity within two weeks and that they would present evidence of this in court if need be.
I still thought the delay un reasonable as I got my sorn reciept back within days of taking the car off the road. (Head gasket I'll get around to it soon...) maybe they were bluffing?
Next came the summons pack showing thre different applications to establish the identity of the driver, to which I was the only response. Vieled threats of big fine and extra points for going to court etc. Loads of paper work to fill out on income and expenditure. I don't need this hassel, I went back to the web and got them to send me the photographic evidence.
Evidence arived yesterday. Three nice clear pictures of a Renault Megan, mine's a CLIO . the registration is one number different.

I hadn't picked that up when they sent through the original intension to prosecute. Why did the searches identify me? Any way it made my Friday night. I probably try to avoid getting to court but ......

sidestand · #2 Post by **sidestand** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:52 pm

I'd have my day in court, if I were you .........Make them look proper twats ......
They might do a more thorough job next time & avoid victimising another innocent motorist

Aladinsaneuk · #3 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:18 pm

and do not forget to bill them for your wasted time....

and expenses

and you do want a written apology....

fastasfcuk · #4 Post by **fastasfcuk** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:29 pm

nice one, go to court and enjoy your moment.

Falcomille · #5 Post by **Falcomille** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:40 pm

Stick it up their arses AND go for costs. Useless twats.

D-Rider · #6 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:54 pm

That must be a big relief Keith.

I wonder how many are driving around with points on their licenses, cash removed from their bank accounts and higher insurance premiums because they just took it on the chin and didn't question it .... some in this situation may have even ended up with a ban.

Quite outrageous.

HisNibbs · #7 Post by **HisNibbs** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:14 pm

Yes Andy it was a big relief. I don't have points anymore but had quite a few in the past and know how, given the miles I do and with a little bad luck, they could quickly mount up. Not always for fair reasons.

A couple of times I've just taken it lying down because it was my word against theirs and I felt I was unlikely to be believed, then ended up one incident from a ban because of a genuine "bang to rights" followed at 85 on the motor way by an unmarked car.....

The first "unfair” occasion was seeing the police in a lay-by and observing them pull out behind me, it was very late at night under street lights and I kept to the limit, they were driving behind me with their lights off. I stopped at some lights and they hung back about 50 yards behind. I thought this ridiculous so I waved to them. Sirens on, nicked for fictitiously doing 70 in a 50. Two of them in the car so who's going to be believed.

Another time was on the overrun round a bend into the 30mph zone. Saw the guy with the gun so hit the anchors and tootled up. He said he clocked me at 50mph and heard me coming from a mile or two off, so was ready for me as I came in sight round the bend. I went back to look and reckoned that’s 50 yards before the speed limit sign..... Thought about it but didn't contest it. A year or two later I wished I had.

So I think there is a case for treating each offence as if it is a potential ban and certainly, if there seems a realistic possibility of not being convicted. Even so I very nearly just coughed up.

It is a sad reflection but I do have the concern that if I let this get to court they might do me for wasting their time............ Still it would be nice to get my own back a little.

Aladinsaneuk · #8 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:15 pm

how can you be wasting the courts time when they summoned you?

HisNibbs · #9 Post by **HisNibbs** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:39 pm

In a perfect world I could be secure with your logic but ....... they could argue that I was aware of a mistake that I should have brought to their attention at the earliest opportunity. My not doing so is gratuitouse time wasting and contempt of court etc.

Another thing is if I'd have to take a day's holiday to attend the court, I still have all the paper work to complete and send my licence off. Maybe I'll try a phone call, followed by a brief letter and see if they can let me just bin the stuff.

TC · #10 Post by TC » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:19 pm

HisNibbs wrote:In a perfect world I could be secure with your logic but ....... they could argue that I was aware of a mistake that I should have brought to their attention at the earliest opportunity. My not doing so is gratuitouse time wasting and contempt of court etc.

Another thing is if I'd have to take a day's holiday to attend the court, I still have all the paper work to complete and send my licence off. Maybe I'll try a phone call, followed by a brief letter and see if they can let me just bin the stuff.

Firstly, you are perfectly entitled to enter a not guilty plea for whatever reason you think reasonable, and you do not have to provide a reason at the time of entering the plea as to why!

It is for the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the alleged offender is guilty of the offence and if you are able to show why you cannot be convicted, then that is a matter for the prosecution and not you, and you do not have to give those reasons until you get to court.

It is not for you to bring any mistakes to the attention of the CPS or the Court at the first opportunity, it is again for the prosecution to ensure that they have the evidence and they have their facts correct, obviously in this case they have failed to do that.

A letter might help, and I would suggest writing to the CPS rather than the central ticket office, but also make it clear that if the case proceeds, it will be your intention to seek costs against Police which always brings on the pains as it entails a formal investigation

If they still then insist that it is going to court, then they cannot then say that they were not warned

HisNibbs · #11 Post by **HisNibbs** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:27 pm

Thanks for the advice TC.

Aladinsaneuk · #12 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:13 pm

nice advice TC

and in my experience, I NEVER make telephone calls now - always recorded delivery letters - they can not be forgotten etc....

DavShill · #13 Post by **DavShill** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:47 am

Just seen this post Keith. Good luck mate.