Teenager beats Speeding ticket

Message

#1 Post by **Kwackerz** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:14 pm

From the U.S.

By Iain Thomson in San Francisco
VNU Net - Saturday, July 19 01:00 am

A teenager has successfully defended himself against a speeding ticket by convincing the court that his GPS was more accurate than a police radar gun.

Shaun Malone, 18, was issued a speeding ticket after a police radar gun tracked him as going 62 mph in a 45 mph zone. However, he appealed the ticket because his GPS, which was installed by his parents to monitor his driving, showed he was driving within the speed limit.

The court originally ruled against the ticket, as a court expert said GPS was not accurate enough to give a precise reading. But after examining the particular system, installed by Rocky Mountain Tracking, he decided it would be suitable.

"This case has caught the attention of the nation, and it will set a precedent on how police departments use speed traps in the face of an increased GPS presence," says Brad Borst, president of Rocky Mountain Tracking, and who is also a former Police Officer.

"The accuracy and reliability of GPS has helped bring this important issue into the limelight."

The device measures real-time speed every 30 seconds and can also be configured to send out an email message to the owners if the car reaches speeds of 70 mph or over.

Let loose the Dogs of War....
I'd like to know which system he was using, My Garmin is relatively accurate however it depends on the satellites overhead being available to correctly plot my position. I cant see it standing up to a court case in UK somehow. Be inbteresting to see what others think on the subject?

TC · #2 Post by TC » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:12 pm

That defence was tried here a few years ago and unfortunately it failed onthe basis that whilst a GPS is quite accurate, there would have to be a way of docementing the actual speed against the speed shown by the speedo/GPS, which would mean that after each journey the data would have to be down loaded.

Some companies employ this black box technology (including the Met Police) but it is something that many people have argued against on the grounds of the "Big Brother" issue.

The USA have somewhat different rules to everyone else, and I somehow don't see this argument becoming a statutory defence here in the UK as a matter of course, but company drivers fitted with the black box technology may well take up the case in time.

#3 Post by **Kwackerz** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:16 pm

I like the GPS subject! See, im currently building.. 'a vehicle' I'll call it, and the speedo will be needed for it to be legal. Im sure something like a GPS is just as accurate as a cable driven thing and I'd love to use one, but would it be legal? An odometer would be OE, but the actuall speedometer, why not GPS?

lazarus · #4 Post by **lazarus** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:34 pm

Kwackerz wrote:I like the GPS subject! See, im currently building.. 'a vehicle' I'll call it, and the speedo will be needed for it to be legal. Im sure something like a GPS is just as accurate as a cable driven thing and I'd love to use one, but would it be legal? An odometer would be OE, but the actuall speedometer, why not GPS?

The GPS is far more accurate than your cable operated speedo though whether dibble would accept it as complying with the con and use regs, I do not know.
Consult the Garmin web site - from memory the gps accuracy is something like 0.5mph but variable.

I guess the issue in the states court case was that the gps whether accurate to one two or three mph wasnt out by 17 mph so the police kit must have been foicussed on something else or porkies were being told. Either was it wasnt beyond reasonable doubt.

TC · #5 Post by TC » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:52 pm

Kwackerz wrote:I like the GPS subject! See, im currently building.. 'a vehicle' I'll call it, and the speedo will be needed for it to be legal. Im sure something like a GPS is just as accurate as a cable driven thing and I'd love to use one, but would it be legal? An odometer would be OE, but the actuall speedometer, why not GPS?

The current Construction and Use Regs state

Every motorcycle first used on or after 1 April 1984 and capable of more than 25 mph must have a speedometer which reads in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour either simultaneously or separately by the use of a switch. A speedometer which is approved to Community Directives 75/443/EEC as amended by 97/39/EC, 2000/7/EC or to UNECE Regulation No.39 is acceptable.

What I can't tell you at the moment is what the Community Directives or UNECE Reg 39 states in order to make it acceptable.

I should point out that the wording is identical for motror cars as well.

All I can say is that in the past and under the 86 Construction and Use Regs (which are still current and which the above is based on) the speedo had to be a mechanical or electrical system affixed to the vehicle and accurate to within 10%.

On this basis it may be open to some interpretation and could lead the way to some case law for any soul brave enough to give it a go

FlyingKiwi · #6 Post by **FlyingKiwi** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:14 pm

TC wrote:it failed on the basis that whilst a GPS is quite accurate, there would have to be a way of docementing the actual speed against the speed shown by the speedo/GPS, which would mean that after each journey the data would have to be down loaded.

My Garmin ZUMO records each journey made.
by plugging it into my PC I know that my speed during last years Van "incident" was 45 mph.

Gio · #7 Post by **Gio** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:38 pm

FlyingKiwi wrote:
TC wrote:it failed on the basis that whilst a GPS is quite accurate, there would have to be a way of docementing the actual speed against the speed shown by the speedo/GPS, which would mean that after each journey the data would have to be down loaded.
My Garmin ZUMO records each journey made.
by plugging it into my PC I know that my speed during last years Van "incident" was 45 mph.

I also have a Garmin Zumo, so if you'd like to set up a test for their accuracy I'm game, BTW is yours also useable on a bike?

Aladinsaneuk · #8 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:24 am

zumos are designed for bike use - the 550 also has a car mount

I know that the built in software is very powerful - recording journeys etc in a fair amount of detail - lets just say that I would rather not have such things accessible by either the courts or the boys in blue!

Gio · #9 Post by **Gio** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:34 pm

So what iof they have the use of the data, they'll have to prove at what point you broke the speed limit.

Mine currently is showing a high speed of 121mph, but I only took it that fast to see its max and its not good enough anyway (sussy's as soft as a bath sponge) I was terrified.

Average speed over nearly 2000 miles is a measly 37.9.