Here's one for TC(or anyone else)

[wayno]

I was under the impression that as of last August the police now could issue on the spot £100 fixed penalty tickets under the careless driving act for undertaking, as well as lane hogging and tailgating.

As far as a specific illegal act of undertaking is concerned it's a bit irrelevant, you get caught by a copper and you get a fine.

Don't get me wrong, I stand by the rule that if you break the law you pay the price, earlier this year I forgot to MOT my car (I had recently moved house and just forgot), I got a fine and I paid it without question (my mrs went nuts and said it was a bit harsh, but I disagreed and said it was my own fault), the car was then immediately MOT'd again. But unless the root cause of undertaking is dealt with first then people working around it shouldn't have the threat of £100 fines, they may as well close the motorways while they turn them all back into dual carriageways and use the extra land for this mass housing shortage they keep going on about.

[BikerGran]

Go on - tell us all what really happens rather than the party line. My best sailing pal is ex job and some of the tales he tells of what really goes on are hilarious. Funnily enough they incline me to give the police greater support because they show plod as being human ( if at times very laddish and a bit immature!)

IMO things were a lot better when plod were able to have a bit of fun, and were not averse to tempering their judgment about the public having a bit of fun as long as it wasn't unreasonable.

Sadly those days are gone and the young officers now are trained to follow the rules blindly, and discouraged from thinking!

[T.C.]

I was under the impression that as of last August the police now could issue on the spot £100 fixed penalty tickets under the careless driving act for undertaking, as well as lane hogging and tailgating.

As far as a specific illegal act of undertaking is concerned it's a bit irrelevant, you get caught by a copper and you get a fine.

Undertaking was never included, only careless driving, lane hoggng and tailgating. Undertaking was excluded for a specific reason, one there is no offence comitted, and two, undertaking on its own is insufficient on its own to convict for careless or dangerous driving, and thirdly, if undertaking was included, then the tail backs around or close to entry and exit slip roads would lock up motorways worse than they are now.

I have coverd this before, but for the benefit of those who missed it, to prove careless driving, it hs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the standard of driving or riding fel well below the standard expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver or rider. A single undertake on its own is insufficient, especially of you are going past a lane hogger who in any case commits the specific offence of driving without reasonable consideration for other road users which is a subsection of section 3 of the Road Traffic Act which covers careless driving.

Drivers in lane 2 or 3 who then move over to lane 1, have a statutory and legal duty of care to ensure it is safe before tey change position and move back

If you undertake at high speed (above the speed limit or higher) and swerve from lane to lane, then the evidence will probably be there to convict, but if it is a singe overtake, then they have no evidence to support a prosecution let alone a conviction.

And if you get pulled for it, quote what I have just said as I did recently and tell him/her that you look forward to your day in court. The copper that pulled me was like you, adamant that undertaking was a specific offence, and when I asked him to provide act and section, he bluffed and huffed and then quoted the Highway Code, which says should not, not must not, and he even got that wrong as well. And he was a supposed traffic cop.

Suffice to say he was not a happy chappy once I gave him a quick law lesson

The point I am making is if you know you are right, then stand by your guns. As someone else has said, many coppers seem to think they are Judge and Jury, but many of them lack basic knowledge of traffic law and skills

[T.C.]

I have no doubt at all about what you say TC. But equally, people being people and me being cynical, its just as likely that it was a private need to get back to the station quickly or to the local Tesco etc. Or are you saying that our traffic officers are paragons of virtue who always obey the rules and never take advantage of their position of power?

Go on - tell us all what really happens rather than the party line. My best sailing pal is ex job and some of the tales he tells of what really goes on are hilarious. Funnily enough they incline me to give the police greater support because they show plod as being human ( if at times very laddish and a bit immature!)

I never tell the party line. I am retired, I am not imressed by modern Police or roads policing tactics, and like the guy who says he never speeds, you show me that person and I will show you a liar, we have all done it, been there and got the T shirt.

For sure I/we have used the perks of the job from time to time and I would be lying if I said we haven't. The Met used to do a distance run on nights and see how far a crew could get on a return journey in hours. The other crews would cover. They were often seen belting down the M4 towards Wales.

The best story though s the crew who decided to be clever and went to Dover (and this was in a full uniformed traffic car) hopped on a ferry, landed in Calais and belted up to Paris. Got the proof from te local Gendarme, were heading back with time to spare when on the outkirts of Calais they totalled the car. Duty Sgt I don't think was that impressed

Perks of the job. Heathrow was our turn round spot on the Motorway and we used to regularly call into the BA service area at Hatton Cross for a cuppa with the maintenance crews. Long story short, we had the chance to go up in Concorde. Quick call to our Sgt who was a real plane buff, met us at the hanger, quickly arranged cover and said we were on enquiries for about 4 hours and out of radio range, and up we went.

4 hours in Concorde flying supersonic in full uniform, and I have the picture of me and my crewmate driving her to prove it.

So, no, I am not going to say it doesn't happen, and I had a lot of fun and the opportunity to do things and meet people that in ay other profession would be unheard of, but, there has to be a balance between taking the p1ss and being professional and doing the job properly.

The point I am making badly, is that in respect of the original question, I was making the point that it is easy to make assumptions, and yes, their dinner may have been getting cold, but on the flip side, if they were takig advantage of their position, then in time they will be caught out and life will be very awkward and a lot of explaining will have to be done if they cannot justify it, especially with the number of traffic cameras there are on the motorways these days.

[wayno]

In that case I stand corrected, I read on MSN that is was part of the same act.

I keep telling the missus that they should put cameras on the gantries and just ticket anyone sitting out in the middle of the motorway and escalate the fines the more you get caught, money is the best deterrent for anything.

Apparently a mate of mine got tugged recently for doing 120 off the M25 onto the M40 on his RSV, somehow he managed to get off with nothing. I told him if it had been me I'd have dragged his arse to court as that is a ridiculous speed to be riding at a junction (I very occasionally do it on a straight emptyish motorway), just goes to show that there are hitler cops and I'll let you off this once cops, like all folk, they're all different.

I just wish the senior constables would start looking for the person who trashed my old car :)