Worthy e-petition - Vehicle tax (motorbikes)

Message

Dalemac · #1 Post by **Dalemac** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:17 pm

Not that these things ever work, but we gotta keep trying!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48869

Dale

D-Rider · #2 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:42 pm

Pointless as it's yet another that doesn't comply with the requirements.
There is no clear statement as to what the petitioners require the government to do.
Yes you can get the general idea but the required clear statement is missing.

Also, although I'm in favour of bikes being taxed more equitably, I'm not so sure about asking to be tied-in more tightly to car emissions standards !

Dalemac · #3 Post by **Dalemac** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:02 pm

Ahh, fair enough. Feel free to remove the thread.

D-Rider · #4 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:24 pm

Nah - the thread is fine and we can enjoy a grumble about being ripped off .... and be prepared to wade in when there is a petition or something that ticks the right boxes.

lazarus · #5 Post by **lazarus** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:44 pm

there is no way that the originator has got his CO2 figures right.. The CO2 comes directly in proportion to the fuel used so a vfr doing 30mpg ( all I ever got out of my 800) will produce more than a sh1troen c1 doing 50 mpg.

to some degree we have ourselves to blame. my 1200gs does 40mpg average weighing 220kgplus me. The family merc does 47mpg over the last 15000 miles and weighs 1500kg. Why? Because for us riders fuel economy has long taken a back seat compared toperformance and power

Paulh · #6 Post by **Paulh** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:04 pm

Bollocks to that - some of us ride old 2 strokes.

BikerGran · #7 Post by **BikerGran** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:24 pm

Shhhhhhh! We don't want the government to cotton on to that!

lazarus · #8 Post by **lazarus** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:57 am

Paulh wrote:Bollocks to that - some of us ride old 2 strokes.

Sure you may ride old stinkies ( what sort? I love old 2 strokes) but in fact their CO2 will be worse to the extent that they burn oil as well. Not only that but you will be belching out all sorts of other nasties . Your own personal global warming plant!

I suspect they got their numbers from http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_vfr_800_1999.php . Not surprising they have the wrong number - their VFR does 331 mpg.

Mind you if it did do 331 mpg then it might get near 16.5g of CO2.

Trouble with all this is that a petition with wrong data and no clear request will be laughed at by the civil servants dealing with it

Paulh · #9 Post by **Paulh** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:09 pm

lazarus wrote:[Sure you may ride old stinkies ( what sort? I love old 2 strokes) but in fact their CO2 will be worse to the extent that they burn oil as well.

TZR250 track bike and 350 F2 YPVS which is track prepped (basically lights taken off) but road legal atm.

Just love the smell and smoke

D-Rider · #10 Post by **D-Rider** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:48 pm

lazarus wrote: Your own personal global warming plant!

If you happen to ignore the facts and still buy-in to the theory that warming is caused by atmospheric CO2

wayno · #11 Post by **wayno** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:27 pm

What gets me going is that road tax is a road fund license, i.e. it is used to fund the roads. My 200kg (plus me) bike does infinitely less damage than a brand new 2 ton SUV that puts out low emissions and pays no road tax.

Cars shouldn't be taxed on emissions alone, all cars should be taxed a minimum amount (and bikes, but at a lower start point), and then emissions extras should be added to these, thus calculating your final tax band.

bigun · #12 Post by **bigun** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:35 pm

Personally I feel road tax should be abolished and added to fuel. I have a brand new car (Volvo) which is exempt from road tax. Ok, it's low emissions but I do around 30-35k miles per year. I use the road far more in that than my wife does in her old Golf GTi (she did 3000 miles last year and road tax is over £200!), and I do on my bike. Put the cost on fuel, probably 4p per litre and you have a pay as you go tax, the admin is certainly less (no DVLA traps etc) and those that travel more, pay more. I can probably see it happening anyway, at some point, low emissions cars will outweigh the number of high emissions so where will the govt get their cash from then?

wayno · #13 Post by **wayno** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:18 pm

Hopefully the government will tell europe to sling their hook soon, that'll save us bucket loads of cash

D-Rider · #14 Post by **D-Rider** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:33 pm

wayno wrote:What gets me going is that road tax is a road fund license, i.e. it is used to fund the roads. My 200kg (plus me) bike does infinitely less damage than a brand new 2 ton SUV that puts out low emissions and pays no road tax.

Cars shouldn't be taxed on emissions alone, all cars should be taxed a minimum amount (and bikes, but at a lower start point), and then emissions extras should be added to these, thus calculating your final tax band.

Unfortunately your first use of "is" needs to be changed to "was".
A far more sensible state of affairs but I'll bet we won't ever be going back there.

bigun wrote:Personally I feel road tax should be abolished and added to fuel. I have a brand new car (Volvo) which is exempt from road tax. Ok, it's low emissions but I do around 30-35k miles per year. I use the road far more in that than my wife does in her old Golf GTi (she did 3000 miles last year and road tax is over £200!), and I do on my bike. Put the cost on fuel, probably 4p per litre and you have a pay as you go tax, the admin is certainly less (no DVLA traps etc) and those that travel more, pay more. I can probably see it happening anyway, at some point, low emissions cars will outweigh the number of high emissions so where will the govt get their cash from then?

Well the tax is already there on fuel (which, of course not only links to consumption but also emissions).

I can't see them moving road tax on to fuel though as fuel tax is already deeply unpopular and increasing it would make it even more unpopular. Also they would have to scrap that stupid SORN stuff too. Now why on earth would they go and scrap something that is completely unnecessary and just makes our lives difficult?

The previous argument was that once a year it would check that you had MOT and insurance in place but Big Brother does that now through databases and ANPR.

wayno wrote:Hopefully the government will tell europe to sling their hook soon, that'll save us bucket loads of cash

By far rather in than out - and leaving would almost certainly cost us deeply.