Margret Thatcher?

[D-Rider]

Err Gio ..... it was Heath that took us into Europe - but then closer ties with Europe is a very good thing

[Kwackerz]

I share your view Will.. Gio.. Laz..

[fatboy]

There is no doubt that Thatcher grabbed the bull by the horns at the right time, when social and political change was needed.
One cannot help but compare her to the Spitting Image version of her self, talking to her neighbour, Adolf.
Her policies consisted of overcome,eliminate, obliterate, very Hitler esque.
The evidence is simply overwhelming that she caused far more harm than good.
What bloody good have any of her policies done?
De regulating financial services,poll tax, deconstructing industry infastructure ect, ect, ect.
Personally, Im disgusted that the witch is having a State funeral

[flatlander]

It can be easy to follow entrenched values and received wisdom.
It is easy to say she did this wrong and that wrong bit she did something that was the defining characteristic.

As to where would we have been without her well as the IMF were effectively running the economy as we were bankrupt and the unions had more than readily shown that they were not averse to abusing their position so were unlikely to allow the bankruptcy of the economy to stop them. Funny how no one blames them for calling un balloted strikes dividing their own membership and not being prepared to give up trying to run the economy.

... But it's a bit of a moot point as to what may have happened without her as she didn't not happen she was there and guess what people are still talking about her with passion of either side years later. So whatever else she made an impression
Anyone got anything that passionate to say about any of the career politicians that came with new labour ? Other than shoot them ?

[mangocrazy]

The one thing you can say about Thatcher withour fear of disagreement is that she polarised opinions. You were either for her or against her; there didn't seem to be any middle ground.

What is also overlooked regarding the Thatcher years is that her administration enjoyed the best of the North Sea Oil years. She also did vast amounts of selling off the family silver, privatising anything that was available.

Her big contribution to Britain was muzzling the Unions; they had been completely out of control under Labour. But just getting them to heel wasn't enough for Maggie - she wanted them broken and destroyed. Vindictiveness seemed to be one of the characteristics of the Thatcher years, in my recollection.

[davebms]

Maggie - she wanted them broken and destroyed. Vindictiveness seemed to be one of the characteristics of the Thatcher years, in my recollection.[/quote]

so what have you got with out them ? yes they got to big,,, but ?

[mangocrazy]

Not quite sure what you meant there, Dave but to me there should always be a balance of power. When all the power lies with management & bosses, as it is now, that isn't a healthy situation. Back in the 70s, when the Unions effectively ruled the country, that wasn't healthy either. The trouble is that the pendulum never seems to settle in the middle, it always swings to one of the extremes.

[lazarus]

What bloody good have any of her policies done?
De regulating financial services,poll tax, deconstructing industry infastructure ect, ect, ect.
Personally, Im disgusted that the witch is having a State funeral

The problem Fatboy is that the good she did, the ideas that worked, have become accepted, give no cause for concern and fade into the background. All we remember are the things that didnt work out so well and are still causing problems - natural enough I suppose.

And some things like the end of coal mining have both plusses and minusses. Caused a lot of heart ache for the workers involved but in the end it wasnt economically viable and would have had to happen sometime. Not only that but is was just as necessary to defeat Scargill as Galtieri - god knows where we would be had Scargill won and set the pattern for other militant unions.

But she totally ducked the issue of the public sector size and culture - a problem that we still have with us today. She tried to castrate the EU by strongly supporting enlargement which she thought might take it back more to a free trade area, and that failed spectacularly. And whilst she sorted out many of the old industries, she didnt do enough to promote the new ones - we dont do coal any longer but neither do we do mass consumer electronics.

I reckon the one thing Geo had right was when he posted " Like her or hate her, personally I like her, she tried which is damn sight more than any politician this side of the 2nd WW attempted". Cameron or Blair or Broon make a speech and think thats it. Job done. Maggie followed through and right or wrong she made things happen. Governing this country is about more than simply making yet more laws in parliament.

[davebms]

Not quite sure what you meant there, Dave but to me there should always be a balance of power. When all the power lies with management & bosses, as it is now, that isn't a healthy situation. Back in the 70s, when the Unions effectively ruled the country, that wasn't healthy either. The trouble is that the pendulum never seems to settle in the middle, it always swings to one of the extremes.

THAT is what i was trying to say

[fatboy]

The fact that she was a formidable force is beyond dispute, as is the fact that she gave her role 110%.
We could argue policy forever, Im no politiciain and dont profess to understnding politics.
I think it is very wrong to honour the memory of someone that held such exreme views with a state funeral, her more notorious beliefs.,
There is no society, I have always voted in favour of the death penalty, The National Front is a Socialist Front, Our children need to be taught moral lessons but instead they are being taught they have an inaliable right to be gay.
Not the kind of beliefs to be remembering or celebrating in 2013

[Aladinsaneuk]

With respect

Thatcher is often referred to as churchillian - and he was an absolute tyrant.....

Personally I was a Thatcherite by birth, opportunity and life style.... My views changed a bit after I saw and experienced the other side of the coin..... But I do remain a capitalist

I would also point out she is NOT RECEIVING a state funeral but is receiving full military honours - I think the armed forces will always revere her

Should we honour her - not sure

Should we remember her legacy - warts and all yes

[flatlander]

I think you may find that it is partly because she was a war leader that she gets the honours and because it was agreed before hand.

You can't really choose which traditions you want to pick on purely a basis of approval.


It does, as someone who went on the odd protest or two against her, gall em that people still see her as breaking the mining communities etc... so that wasn't a thieving opportunist called Scargill then who corruptly took control of the mineworkers union and broke it by not calling a democratic ballot and more importantly irrespective of political views being such an arrogant dumb twot that he couldn't see it coming... and yes I supported the miners at the time just not that fekwit

Sorry A combination of factors broke the unions not least their own behaviour

Personally I don't mind if they do or don't but would I be grateful if Foot or Kinnock had been in charge ... nope Although to be fair like Blair Kinnock at least proved they were more than prepared to embtrace Thatherite ideals and practices on a personal level ...



There is nothing in socialism that a little age or a little money will not cure.
Durant, William J.

Appears to have been right in their case

and to be fair was this a quote. a prediction or in 2013 a view worth holding

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher